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paypal, moneybookers.com - what options do i have?

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  1. #21

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    Is it just a fear of upsetting the VERY powerful incumbents that legislation for making money transfers open and above board. As for KYC surely their can be e-certs that can go-along bitcoin transactions in the same way cash can sometime need a paper trail.

    I suspect different levels of KYC compliance will develop from near zero for in-country micro-payments to Level 4 for large international transfers.


  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by flameproof
    WU is not secure for the buyer. It's rather anonymous too, plus very costly. With TT you have at least the receivers data.
    Back in the day when I used WU (as standard go-to-branch-to-get-money service and as account number registered/quick) it was also very clear. At the WU branch a passport was needed, and if a letter was not correct in the name or any doubt, they wouldn't pay out.

  3. #23

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    paypal, moneybookers.com - what options do i have?

    I think some of you have the Bitcoin technology a bit wrong.

    Sure the exchanges and businesses can become banks - the trustworthy ones are already doing KYC and are licensed in their respective jurisdictions and backed with cash etc.

    The underlying technology, the blockchain, is p2p and the regulators don't have control over it.

    There were a few developments in the direction of something like the e-certs that EC mentions, but nothing materialized, was very welcome, or was without its drawbacks. The more useful proposals were/are community based, but the bankers also chimed in of course over the years: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirh...in-validation/

    It will be interesting to watch for sure.

    Last edited by 100LL; 25-02-2015 at 09:44 AM.
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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by 100LL
    I think some of you have the Bitcoin technology a bit wrong.

    Sure the exchanges and businesses can become banks - the trustworthy ones are already doing KYC and are licensed in their respective jurisdictions and backed with cash etc.

    The underlying technology, the blockchain, is p2p and the regulators don't have control over it.
    By P2P do you mean Pirate 2 Pirate? Peer to Peer would assume some asymmetry of knowledge, until there are internationally recognised KYC protocols it is probably more of a W2W (whoever 2 whatever) system.


  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri
    Paypal should work. By far the most integrated platform with shopping carts, like Flameproof mentioned. Drop the shopping cart developers a line or touch base with Paypal - they're pretty aggressive when it comes to opening new accounts / doing business with them.

    Moneybookers is weird. They chased us very aggressively to sign up and when we said ok - they asked for waaaay too much information which I was not comfortable providing.

    Worldpay is not really a bank - similar to Paypal, but may or may not require you to provide them a deposit - which according to a few people on here is quite a hefty amount of money for a small biz.

    Paydollar is a local transaction broker - PayDollar - The most popular and leading ePayment service and solution provider in Asia for banks, corporates, SMEs and charities and may be able to provide you with local support.
    Legislation is going through LegCo at the moment for clearer regulation. Hopefully if people know there are rules they will come and offer their services in Hong Kong.

    http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr14-15/engl...501232_brf.pdf

  6. #26

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    paypal, moneybookers.com - what options do i have?

    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast
    By P2P do you mean Pirate 2 Pirate?
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

    Bitcoin[note 5] is an online payment system invented by Satoshi Nakamoto,[note 6] published in 2008[12] and introduced as open-source software in 2009.[13] The system is peer-to-peer; users can transact directly without needing an intermediary.[14]:4 Transactions are verified by network nodes and recorded in a public distributed ledger called the block chain.[15]
    Last edited by 100LL; 25-02-2015 at 07:41 PM.
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  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast
    Legislation is going through LegCo at the moment for clearer regulation. Hopefully if people know there are rules they will come and offer their services in Hong Kong.

    http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr14-15/engl...501232_brf.pdf
    Would like to see how they try to regulate the overseas payment providers like Worldpay etc.

    Will read the bill when I get some time later today... but not very optimistic at first glance that things will become simpler for us to say go to HSBC / Stan Chart or second tier banks and request online credit card processing facilities.

    Lets hope they don't make an already bad situation worse...

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBrit
    Bitcoin will be legislated against as soon as it tries to become more mainstream. The powers that be have a vested interest in controlling the flow of money - for legitimate (fighting organized crime, terrorism, tax evasion) as well as illegitimate (information, power) reasons.

    KYC will kill Bitcoin as the exchanges are forced to go through the same hoops as banks do know, plus requirements on reporting large transactions etc etc. Then you'll start seeing minimum capital requirements too, plus they'll have to abide by the same regulations as banks... and they'll be a bank.

    I really can't see any other way this will work out.
    If you're trying to saying that KYC will kill bitcoin; that's not true at all. The anonymous aspect of BTC isn't necessary for it to function. In it's current guise, it's there and obviously some players will take advantage of it. Once the anti-establishment group realizes that it's a bit presumptuous to expect full anonymity in these matters, and make compromises to implement KYC; what reason do regulators have for outlawing BTC?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by wayland
    If you're trying to saying that KYC will kill bitcoin; that's not true at all. The anonymous aspect of BTC isn't necessary for it to function. In it's current guise, it's there and obviously some players will take advantage of it. Once the anti-establishment group realizes that it's a bit presumptuous to expect full anonymity in these matters, and make compromises to implement KYC; what reason do regulators have for outlawing BTC?
    What will be the advantage of Bitcoin then? Why would anyone want to use it if you have to jump through all the same hoops banks make you jump through now?

  10. #30

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    this whole KYC bs on this topic really annoys me when you see that mainland chinese can literally walk into HSBC central branch with a
    luggage full of RMB bills...It would also help if HK could actually align the legal wording and the practice as implemented by the police and courts on money laundering (as Jake Van der Kamp always nicely points out)

    until then, i am pessimistic that they can actually make any improvement

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