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BP: good buy?

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  1. #31

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    2208.HK (Goldwind) pulled their IPO in Hong Kong and are still only listed over the border.

    The big Chinese solar PV manufacturers are listed in the US (Suntech, Yingli, and JA Solar). Getting your hands on US listed shares (and ADRs of non-US companies where possible) is a lot easier than getting your hands on European shares directly.

    Another company that is in the business is China Everbright (257.HK).

    PLEASE NOTE:- THESE ARE NOT STOCK TIPS, NOR SHOULD THIS POST BE CONSIDERED "FINANCIAL ADVICE".


  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by fth:
    2208.HK (Goldwind) pulled their IPO in Hong Kong and are still only listed over the border.

    The big Chinese solar PV manufacturers are listed in the US (Suntech, Yingli, and JA Solar). Getting your hands on US listed shares (and ADRs of non-US companies where possible) is a lot easier than getting your hands on European shares directly.

    Another company that is in the business is China Everbright (257.HK).

    PLEASE NOTE:- THESE ARE NOT STOCK TIPS, NOR SHOULD THIS POST BE CONSIDERED "FINANCIAL ADVICE".
    Yes, I bought Suntech. One of my worst investments ever! I lost 30% so far

    And with the Merkel wanting to reduce government spending (including subsidies for renewable energy) it seems that this stock is not going to recover very soon.

    I thought I would never live to see that, but the American people seem to have elected a smarter head of state than the Germans

  3. #33

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    Remember though feed-in tariffs are normally passed on to electricity consumers NOT paid by the government. The alternative system is renewable certificate obligations as seen in the UK and in parts of Australia which allow the market to decide a price not by government diktat.


  4. #34

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    fth, I don't understand what you mean, but the problem is that fossil fuels have a lot of externalities which (by definition) are not included in the price of the fuel. The only way to make renewable energy price-competitive is to subsidise them. Of course it is also logical to subsidise renewable energies by the amount of the externalities produced by fossil fuels, or then (even better) to tax fossil fuels', so as to internalise their externalities. Either way renewable energies will be cheaper, but you need government will to do so, and right now it's lacking. Politicians are just willing to talk about it, but not to do something about it.


  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by virago:
    Morally, I would say no.
    I know this is a late response, but morally what is there to invest in?

  6. #36

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    Mr No, what happens is that the electricity distributers are forced to buy renewable energy from electricity generators in one of two methods.

    1. (Feed in tariff) all renewable energy as it is generated at either a predetermined price or premium over the spot market for conventional energy

    2. (Certificates), have to buy a certain amount of certificates (or a % of the amount of electricity they sell) from renewable generating companies for the number of kWh they generate. The price of the certificate is set by the "market".

    In both cases the cost is passed on normally to the end user through higher electricity prices in their bill. The government does not normally pay the premium which you were alluding to.

    Skyhook likes this.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by limepickle:
    I know this is a late response, but morally what is there to invest in?
    As I mentioned, there are better businesses to invest in than BP.

    If you want a pure moral ground does limit you but you have to be realistic too.

    Governments should start to legislate triple bottom line reporting to at least report financially the company's environmental impact and their financial cost to exist.

  8. #38

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    fth, indeed, but apart from the electricity distributors being forced to buy renewable energy (which is itself becoming less popular in countries like Germany, since the Merkel got a right-wing, pro-fossil-fuels partner (the fdp)), renewable energy is also being subsidised by governments. This is now being cut: Spain's Solar-Power Collapse Dims Subsidy Model - WSJ.com , in the name of "austerity" and "cutting the budget".

    Which is incredibly stupid, and might lead to a new recession: Bank of England rate-setter fears new UK recession - Yahoo! Finance or a depression G20: Paving the way for a new Great Depression? - CSMonitor.com.


  9. #39

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    Not quite right on Spain, this article and letter has it down pretty clearly.

    Spanish electricity tariff deficit hits €14bn - People - News : Utility Week
    Proposed Spanish retroactive reduction of solar PV feed-in tariffs | Finance Weblog

    What actually happened was that the generators were paid by the distributors, but the distributors could not reclaim the cost from the customers as their prices in turn were fixed by the regulator.

    This is an age old problem in many countries, scared of making consumers pay the price of their electricity and the "busts" that inevitably followed. NAPOCOR in the Philippines, various state utilities in India and Pakistan, PLN of Indonesia had very similar issues in conventional power during the 1990's and early 2000's.

    In the UK there was a private sector case where a poorly designed fixed price contract and too much debt led to a major debt restructuring of a power generator and a major headache for an American energy firm. The issue is not just restricted to governments. Maybe Moving could jump in here.....

    Last edited by fth; 30-06-2010 at 07:27 PM.

  10. #40

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    fth, I am not entirely sure we are talking about the same things here. I am talking about the subsidies for renewable energy that the Spanish government (among others) is cutting, which makes renewable energy more expensive than fossil-fuels, which in turn stops renewable energy corporations building up their power plants (hence the sharp drop in the share prices of renewable energy companies).

    There is more than one issue that affect price and source of energy, and I think you are talking about a completely different thing.