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Financial Advisors & getting your money back

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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquorice:
    Just going through paperwork and reminded myself, and looking to see whether there really isn't anything I can do. As I said above, I'm guessing quite a few people have had similar experiences.
    Yup, yup - it happens to most green, wet behind the ear investors.

    Happened to me too back when I was 19 and in Canada. A stockbroker took my greenness for stupidity and I quickly learned a valuable new lesson in what churning was all about. Still makes me mad thinking about it.

  2. #12

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    Never invest in anything you do not understand.

    Most so called financial advisors exist I enrich themselves at your expense. Don't be fooled.

    You can get your money back. I'll give you a few hints. Some types of contracts and some types of terms may not be legally enforceable. Secondly, any contract can be renegotiated. Now think a little further - what might make this advisor or his company want to renegotiate the terms?

    Think about it.....

    dear giant likes this.

  3. #13

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    In the UK there was a heap of this mis-selling going on and the regulator got all het up about it. Google endowment mortgage scams UK or something similar and you can read all about it. Anyway, basically the companies are required to compensate "mis - sold" investors. I got a bunch of money back off one of mine (and actually I don't really regret it much as at the time it was the only way I could have got a mortgage on my salary!). I too am locked in for (let's see... scarily not much longer!) a while but it has not actually LOST money, just not gained as much as it could have.

    If this is similar to you, I suggest you google the UK experience and then try suggesting to the Singaporean firm that this is the same. If they have any branches in the UK, try seeing if that helps. Just apply some pressure as Randy suggested. It's a tiny sum of money to them - probably give you something back just to get you to shut up!

    Last edited by MovingIn07; 14-06-2012 at 07:13 PM.

  4. #14

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    There we go... Movingin's comments are heading in the right direction. Now think a little further... How do companies like this make their money. And what are some of the factors that threaten their business model, that you can easily influence ...


  5. #15

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    If memory serves, Singapore was the only other place in the world besides HK where banks were permitted to sell "mini bonds" directly to members of the public.

    The Lehman Aftermath: Hong Kong and Singapore Regulatory Reforms in the Structured Product MarketsWorld (PDF)

    The OP was not involved in minibonds, obviously, but I think that HK and Sg may both be similar insofar as financial types can prey on unwary civilians without much fear of repercussions.

    Last edited by dear giant; 14-06-2012 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Added link to paper about the Lehman Bros minibond debacle and HK and Sing govt regulatory response

  6. #16

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    Ask a lawyer based in Singapore for advise and perhaps to review the contract, but consider carefully if you want to throw good money after bad in case you would need to go to court.


  7. #17

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    International 'savings' plan

    Ask a lawyer hahaha
    I was quoted $5,000 an hour for them (2 lawyers) to fill in forms for me- admire their up front style though. Which is far better than the no fee financial advisor approach.
    You have not even a snow ball in Hell's chance of getting compensation for a missold int. savings plan years later. Some if you managed not to breach falling under the trip out of falling below surrender value minimum and you may end up getting the lump sum back at the end of term- but it's doubtful depends on the annual management charge on the first 24 months of contrib. some are 10% and others 18% per annum which will just keep cutting the fund value until you get tripped out and you get a cheque for at most a couple of thousand- from your 9k in funds.
    Some stinkers- H*** come across some very nasty brokers and they seem willing to take anyone on as a financial adviser. Caught one,and she was a lady, who sold a 25 yr saving plan as an 18 month deposit scheme. All the emails proved it, the guy wanted to stop paying after 13 months and she kept emailing him to keep going for the full 18 months. Of course there would be nothing in the plan after 18 months but she would have had all her commission. The insurer H** in Isle of Man received copies of all emails and yet they still refused to give the guy his money back. They said it was irrelevant since he received the policy document. Isle of Man Insurance commission (regulator) just ignore it all since they want the insurance companies tax and fees and as long as they do not sell in Isle of Man that's other people's problem.

    Lesson
    Don't buy your life's financial plan in a bar. Pay fees. Or do it yourself through a trading platform- Interactivebrokers, etrade, sharebuilder, Schwab. Make sure it has investor protection scheme like SIPC.
    Ignore glossy brochures.
    Read the dam contract!


  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquorice:
    Is there any way to break out of stupid investments you set up when you were young and foolish?

    Over 10 years ago, when I had just moved to Asia and was young and pretty naive, I was talked into setting up an investment fund by a very smooth talking financial advisor, with every sales trick up his sleeve. I soon realized, after telling friends what I had done, what a bad move it was. However, by then I was committed so I continued to pay into it for 18 months - as was the minimum payment period - but then stopped as soon as I could.

    Anyway, the total I paid in was US$9k. It is now worth around US$7k or even less. But even if I wanted to cut my losses, I am not allowed to withdraw anything for another 25 or 30 years. It was such a terrible waste of money, as it won't be worth anything by the time I can withdraw it unless I continue to pay into it, but that would just be throwing good money after bad.

    I wrote to the company and asked if I could close it and withdraw the money. I can, however the penalty for closing early means that I lose around 80% of the value.

    Is there no get out clause from an agreement such as this? I know the contract is legally binding, but some part of me just can't believe that people can be ripped off so badly by 'professional' advisors preying on the young and inexperienced.
    I assume that you were over the age of 18 when you signed the document and that when you signed there was clause stating that you had read and fully understood your contractual obligations. I would bet that in the document it states clearly the penalties for early withdrawal of funds. Many investments funds are commission front-loaded. It sounds that what you had signed up to was a long-term investment. You weren't cheated. You just purchased a bad product. The only person to blame is yourself unless you can prove that you were sold something eg high risk when you had explicitly requested a low risk product.

  9. #19

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    Was this Meyado and Mark Paine by any chance? If so, see here: Meyado / Meretec / MITL / Martin Young – A Cautionary Tale and all the comments.


  10. #20

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    Jun 2012
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    International savings plans

    Clear on what you signed for- is a mute point:

    The paperwork and contracts are not that clear. Depends on where you signed it and when- legislation changes. In Sing they are now very upfront;basically you are effectively signing to say you are an idiot and quite happy to be ripped off. To get round this salesman won't show you the crucial documents until the very last minute and they will not be left with you to consider the paperwork. They will be part of the many documents you sign on the day of sale and likely to be in amongst the docs as part of the signing package- once signed they will be whisked out of site and only likely to see the light of day again when a complaint comes in.

    But the product providers literature is not as clear. Clever really since these are the documents you are left to mull over. Example:
    Z.... 's international savings contract in Sing actually shows an algebraic formula for the charging structure. This type of deception was banned in the UK around 1990 for pretty obvious reasons.
    But the East is way behind and some would argue - in the pocket of the insurance companies. Remember the salesman did not design these contracts, it is the insurance companies. Every once in a while a salesman is caught and he is slagged off. The real culprits are the insurance companies that promote these tactics. It is the insurers contracts which has lead to the rubbishing of the industry- there are many decent advisers who have been crowded out of the market by shysters. As one shyster is kicked out he is replaced by others. It won't change until insurance companies are brought to account and that's very unlikely- they employ a lot of people to sell the dross and have powerful friends.

    Final example
    Under Sing regulation the industry operates openness and clarity in charges to clients. Commissions are all required to be disclosed with the exception of one area- surprise surprise- insurance contracts. The island is overloaded with insurance companies. Almost any savings product sold is sold under an insurance policy wrapper. Nearly all the insurance companies are ones with historic UK connections. Their sales forces were shut down in the UK, as practices which are accepted here were banned in the UK. Today walking into an insurance company offices in the East reminds me of the eighties in the UK where all the salesman had hot desks and 70-100 salesman shared the same office- quite scary really. Its much like how the tobacco companies have operated over the last 30 years- cant sell in your home market anymore? No problem sell it in the emerging market.

    Liquorice likes this.