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Renovate or Buy New

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  1. #11

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    Feb 2011
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    Older buildings well you have older facilities and potentially more prone to issues such as water leakage and pests so you have to decide if you want that. Newer buildings may have smaller layouts. Renovating costs go up substantially when you start moving walls.

    The key elements are what you cannot control and what's more expensive to fix. Or course you need to be within your budget and have some convenience to you. Then I look at direction (I don't want sun facing), bathroom (is it nice or shoddy), kitchen. Then the layout and size of the rooms. Are they suitable. If not then can you make it suitable by taking down 1 wall, or how far do you need to go.


  2. #12

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    7,517

    Renovating an old flat - you need to find a reliable contractor (as mentioned), you need to manage that contractor, and you need to spend time researching and finding the materials (numerous visits to Mongkok or further afield).

    A terrace or rooftop can be worth the premium to the right buyer.

    It can take 2-3 months - depends how much you do.

    With an older building, there can be problems with the whole building which you will have no control over. This is one reason why some people prefer to buy in a new or recently built building.

    Overall, I think if you have the time and energy (buying a flat is already quite a big step), then buying an older building and renovating is a good option. You can end up with something you are far happier with, than buying a new flat and living in that.

    shri likes this.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    20

    Thanks MandM and drumbrake...sounds like I need a surveyor/realtor rolled into one.

    Don't know how to even start this process... how would I know if an older property is simply more hassle and problematic than it's worth? thanks


  4. #14

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    Aug 2006
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    Estate agent - most are terrible; I usually go for the older ones; explain clearly your plans, and hope they advise you correctly. They do need to tell you about any problems with the flat, but I'd be also concerned about the overall management of the building which depends on all (or most) of the owners cooperating. This is something an agent might know, or if you know someone already in the building, it can help.

    Surveyor - that was my contractor / builder / general adviser rolled into one. Once I had found a flat I was interested in, he had a look through just to see that it was structurally sound and it would be possible to do what I wanted. It was not a legal contract though, and there was a lot of trust involved.

    The above is probably why many locals do not buy older properties and renovate. There are lots of things that can go wrong, and building construction and maintenance in Hong Kong is not great. Maybe I was lucky - I bought old, renovated, and ended up with something I was happy with. The building has problems, but it is something I can live with - however, if I rented the flat out, I'd probably have a tenant posting on these forums complaining about the lifts, the security guards, the cleaning of common areas, and other things - none of which I have control over.

    Knowing Chinese (or knowing someone fluent in Chinese who is willing to help you) is probably very important to keep costs down.

    shri likes this.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by MandM!:
    Older buildings well you have older facilities and potentially more prone to issues such as water leakage and pests so you have to decide if you want that. Newer buildings may have smaller layouts. Renovating costs go up substantially when you start moving walls.

    The key elements are what you cannot control and what's more expensive to fix. Or course you need to be within your budget and have some convenience to you. Then I look at direction (I don't want sun facing), bathroom (is it nice or shoddy), kitchen. Then the layout and size of the rooms. Are they suitable. If not then can you make it suitable by taking down 1 wall, or how far do you need to go.
    Oh gosh I hadn't even considered direction or pests... Really need to look into this more. Are banks very reluctant to lend for older buildings requiring renovation? Thanks

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    20
    Quote Originally Posted by drumbrake:
    Estate agent - most are terrible; I usually go for the older ones; explain clearly your plans, and hope they advise you correctly. They do need to tell you about any problems with the flat, but I'd be also concerned about the overall management of the building which depends on all (or most) of the owners cooperating. This is something an agent might know, or if you know someone already in the building, it can help.

    Surveyor - that was my contractor / builder / general adviser rolled into one. Once I had found a flat I was interested in, he had a look through just to see that it was structurally sound and it would be possible to do what I wanted. It was not a legal contract though, and there was a lot of trust involved.

    The above is probably why many locals do not buy older properties and renovate. There are lots of things that can go wrong, and building construction and maintenance in Hong Kong is not great. Maybe I was lucky - I bought old, renovated, and ended up with something I was happy with. The building has problems, but it is something I can live with - however, if I rented the flat out, I'd probably have a tenant posting on these forums complaining about the lifts, the security guards, the cleaning of common areas, and other things - none of which I have control over.

    Knowing Chinese (or knowing someone fluent in Chinese who is willing to help you) is probably very important to keep costs down.
    I'm going to find it difficult on all [the above] fronts then... Thanks for highlighting these...wouldn't want to end up on a forum for things beyond my control!

    I think I've watched too many UK DIY programmes in the past that made this look easy...
    MABinPengChau likes this.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    50

    Banks do lend on older buildings but require a much larger deposit - 50% for example. Hardly anyone here employs a surveyor - you have to use common sense - e.g. check for concrete spalling etc. If a top floor watch out for leaks - as a rule of thumb, ALL roofs leak here after about 10 years and tearing up roof tiles and re-laying a roof can be pretty costly.
    You get a LOT more space for your money - we bought a 1000 sq ft top floor apartment and roof some years ago, completely re-furbished it - yes, it was quite a hassle - but well worth it. However we will probably have to have the roof re-done in a year or so....


  8. #18

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    6

    I agree that buying old and renovate is definitely cheaper. In my experience managing the contractors are not a big problem and I actually like to choose all materials myself. Renovations are generally pretty cheap in Hong Kong. And as MandM has said, in older buildings footprint is often more generous. I've found that most newer apartments only feature tiny bedrooms. But of course the building itself and amenities will also be older. And like Geraldo has pointed out it is harder to get good loan conditions on older apartments.

    Terrace/rooftops are getting more and more sought-after in Hong Kong (like it has been in western countries for a while) and therefore will definitely add substantial value to the property. Higher floors with good view is also a sound investments, especially if there is a lot construction going on in the neighborhood...

    K_UK likes this.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
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    229

    I purchased an older unit that required a full renovation. It was about 13.5k per net square foot, and came out to be about 14.6k per net square foot after factoring my renovation cost. At the time Newer buildings of comparable size in the neighbourhood would have been in the low to high 20k per square foot.

    Additionally, it might not be exactly what you want and you might be reluctant to renovate something so new. Since I was able to totally gut the place I was able really design it to how I was going to live in it as opposed to make due with the more generally appealing layout of a new build.

    The downside is probably as nice as you do up your own apartment, you don't really have control over the common areas and the apartment will be a mix of different tenants. There are some neighbours who burn incense which can put off some people, the elevators are a bit slow, etc.

    Additionally, lots of people will have the same idea, so that has meant that in my stay here, there have been a lot of other neighbouring units being renovated. This should be okay for most people as renovation is usually during the work day, but for me I have alternative work hours and am often at home when they are renovating. Additionally if you have a family or kids staying at home, they might be subject to the noise.

    Also, renovation works can occur during Saturday, so if you're out late on Friday night planning to sleep in on Saturday morning, neighbouring renovations could mess with those plans.

    So in a nutshell, I think overall it is much cheaper and you get something more tailored to what you want. That being said, facilities, and common areas might not be to the same standard and there's not much you can do about that.

    K_UK likes this.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Kowloon
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    160

    Another thing to think about if buying old is how close the building is to its mandatory renovation. I think once a building passes 40 years old (I can’t remember how old off hand) the govt helps subsidise mandatory works which include pipe replacement, exterior tile work, lift upgrade etc. It can be a fair old chunk of money despite the subsidy. It also means 6+ months of external scaffolding which is when all the burglaries will start.