View Poll Results: Easy to use Cathay Pacific miles?

Voters
20. You may not vote on this poll
  • Impossible

    5 25.00%
  • Need to plan six months plus, ahead of time

    7 35.00%
  • Need to plan one-six months, ahead of time

    6 30.00%
  • Easy! My taxi driver takes them ..

    2 10.00%

Cathay Pacific Mileage

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  1. #41

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    258

    Smile Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by howard_roark:
    Freeier - would love to debate structural disadvantages of US based airlines over a beer.
    Tesh,

    I want to join this debate, as I have a pretty strong airline understanding as well as a history of collective bargaining courses and soooo many airline related Business/MBA projects that it makes me sick!!

    Ha Ha!

    Kris

  2. #42

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    227

    Freeier, is Singapore airlines profitable? If so, it would appear to challenge your theory since SQ provides better seating/comfort, better service, better food, and a better loyalty program than CX. In fact, I would prefer SQ over any US based airline as well.

    PDLM and anyone else who might be interested:

    I just received, in writing, confirmation from AA that all code-share flights are included for the challenge as well as for the frequent flyer program. So AA's Aadvantage program would appear to be a feasible alternative to Asia Miles for Hong Kong-based travelers.


  3. #43

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    HK/US = CX/CO
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    111
    Quote Originally Posted by freeier:
    which, in fairness, might not be wrong, but in relativity, might not be so simple.

    1. as compared to the rest of the industries in asia, airlines tend to have quite a strong union. i.e. cathay pac and SIA have unions that have carried out collective bargaining and actions in the past.

    2. as compared to the rest of industries in america, which are still making money, the unions in american airlines are not particularly strong (e.g. versus the port workers, the UPS, etc.)

    3. so all in, since asian airlines are as profitable as the non-unionised asian companies, then american airlines should be at least as profitable as most of the american companies.

    4. which means, the key to their failure is cost overrunning. and that implies eventually that cost of flights are not economically balanced and they have more free seats to offer to non-paying customers.
    Quick thoughts:

    1. In regional industrial spectrum they may have their labor force more organized but I bet they are micky mouse compared against Teamsters / AFA that US based airlines have to deal with.

    2. Again not a fair comparison - for eg, ports have different economics and pricing & negotiating power. Pricing comes from somewhat monopolistic nature of the business & negotiations comes from threat of increased automation and relatively low skill workforce that could be easily replaced through contract workers. For UPS, it traces into the history; you will be amazed with how much a UPS truck driver make annually. Whereas their most labor intensive jobs - the loaders and sorters are students from UofL; hey I was one of them!!

    3. I doubt the logic of the corollary. Amongst many exceptions; it does not factor the regional competitive pressures, legacy issues and structural differences (such as regulations, gate charges, airport fees etc etc)

    4. I am not an apologist for US based airlines; their biggest problem is their management and not their loyalty program. The industry needs just one PE/LBO deal to fix the management hubris that doesn’t let the industry consolidation or new ideas.

    Kris - For the official record; I will never debate you!!!

  4. #44

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    Nov 2005
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    ops. mutating thread. but good for discussion. and following Howard, not with kris. 8-P

    Howard>
    generally, i do not disagree that there are obviously points differentiating the companies in terms of labour structure, but for simple establishing of rationale of why CX's asian miles is much harder to use, I do not see why not.
    I don't see how we can tear out the frequent flyer program without looking at the overall economical position of the airlines.

    Americal airlines, generally weak in performance and hence the need to offer extremely generous frequent flyer program which wouldn't really have eat much into their profit since the cost is quite fixed.

    CX, making money from cost control and hence packing flights with paying customer is much better than honouring FF program. At the same time, they offer extremely generous air miles earning program (particular when tax payment was mileable, you see people paying 6-7 digit taxes in HK earning a free regional ticket at no cost). So you end up with alot of miles fighting for very little spaces allocated to the miles.

    SQ, profitability is through well executed marketing campaign and cost control in key areas like fuel hedging. Most tickets on SQ is a hundred (USD) or so more expensive than other airlines and yet people are willing to pay more to take the flight. similarly, the cost of air miles by SQ would indirectly be higher. So all these plus a lower breakeven load factor allow SQ to honour more of the FF mileages.

    makes sense ?
    just throwing more marbles into the pipe. 8-P


  5. #45

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    12,383

    >> earning a free regional ticket at no cost

    The miles were paid for by the credit card companies.

    AsiaMiles are *expensive* for partners (restaurants / outlets) to buy.


  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by KnowItAll:
    >> earning a free regional ticket at no cost

    The miles were paid for by the credit card companies.

    AsiaMiles are *expensive* for partners (restaurants / outlets) to buy.

    at no cost to the customer. 8-)
    no doubt there were cost to the CC company. but i would think its not as expensive as it shld be

  7. #47

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    Apr 2003
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    Freeier : want to guess how much it costs for a partner to buy a mile?


  8. #48

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    Jun 2005
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    Hong Kong
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    A little over 1 US Cent I believe.

    Occasionally opportunities appear where mileage schemes are badly defined and it becomes possible effectively to buy miles at a bargain price. I will certainly happily pay 1 US cent per mile on AA and even a little more for AsiaMiles when the opportunities arise..


  9. #49

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    let me go around to ask the 'expert'... she's not online these days..


  10. #50

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    12,383

    PDLM : yeah .. 8-12 Hong Kong cents in bulk for Asiamiles partners.

    Anyways .. my point being, a fair bit of money changes hands with these points from various schemes... so it is not "free" like everyone just assumes.


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