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  • 2 Post By emx
  • 3 Post By nuruhuine

HK Express Bagage lost and Montreal Convention

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  1. #1

    Angry HK Express Bagage lost and Montreal Convention

    Hi,

    Yes, another complaint thread about HK Express..

    Back in September I booked a round-trip flight to Tokyo with HK Express. I didn't not take a carry-on luggage, just a backpack as this was a short trip and I intended to buy a painting and bring it back to HK. On the day of return the local agent didn't want me to take it on the flight (the painting was rolled up in a small tube) and forced me to check it in and pay extra (again, didn't even have a carry-on..). They did not have me sign a liability waiver.

    Of course as you can guess the tube with the painting never made it to HK and it's been a struggle since then talking with multiple people from both HAGSL (the company to which they outsource luggage issues..) and HK Express. I feel like I live in a real version of Dumb and Dumber when trying to explain something to them.

    Anyhow, HK Express hides behind this page:
    https://www.hkexpress.com/en-hk/need...ge-claims-doc/
    which states
    "Except for checked or unchecked baggage carried in the course of international carriage as defined by the Warsaw or Montreal Convention, we are not liable, in any way whatever, for loss of, damage to or delay in the delivery of articles which you include in your baggage despite their inclusion being prohibited by our General Conditions of Carriage for Passengers and Baggage. Such items include, but are not limited to the following:"

    And pretty much everything you own besides socks is listed there, but you wouldn't expect anything else from a low cost airline. That's my first question of this thread, I am not native in English but from what I understand, that means "IF your flight is not an international flight as defined in the Warsaw/Montreal Convention, THEN we do not cover those items listed below". Am I wrong??

    And second of all, is the Montreal Convention itself that clearly states what happens in that case.
    You can read the convention: https://www.iata.org/policy/consumer...-full-text.pdf , to make things easier to explain I will copy/paste the CHAPTER I article 1 & 2, CHAPTER III article 17.2/3/4 & 26, CHAPTER VI article 49 here.

    Chapter 1:
    1. This Convention applies to all international carriage of persons, baggage or cargo performedby aircraft for reward. It applies equally to gratuitous carriage by aircraft performed by an airtransport undertaking.
    2. For the purposes of this Convention, the expression international carriage means anycarriage in which, according to the agreement between the parties, the place of departure and theplace of destination, whether or not there be a break in the carriage or a transhipment, are situatedeither within the territories of two States Parties, or within the territory of a single State Party if thereis an agreed stopping place within the territory of another State, even if that State is not a State Party.Carriage between two points within the territory of a single State Party without an agreed stoppingplace within the territory of another State is not international carriage for the purposes of thisConvention.

    Chapter 3:

    2. The carrier is liable for damage sustained in case of destruction or loss of, or of damage to,checked baggage upon condition only that the event which caused the destruction, loss or damagetook place on board the aircraft or during any period within which the checked baggage was in thecharge of the carrier. However, the carrier is not liable if and to the extent that the damage resultedfrom the inherent defect, quality or vice of the baggage. In the case of unchecked baggage, includingpersonal items, the carrier is liable if the damage resulted from its fault or that of its servants oragents.
    3. If the carrier admits the loss of the checked baggage, or if the checked baggage has notarrived at the expiration of twenty-one days after the date on which it ought to have arrived, thepassenger is entitled to enforce against the carrier the rights which flow from the contract of carriage.
    4. Unless otherwise specified, in this Convention the term „baggage“ means both checkedbaggage and unchecked baggage.
    26. Invalidity of Contractual Provisions: Any provision tending to relieve the carrier of liability or to fix a lower limit than that which is laiddown in this Convention shall be null and void, but the nullity of any such provision does not involvethe nullity of the whole contract, which shall remain subject to the provisions of this Convention.

    Chapter 6:
    Article 49 — Mandatory ApplicationAny : clause contained in the contract of carriage and all special agreements entered into before thedamage occurred by which the parties purport to infringe the rules laid down by this Convention,whether by deciding the law to be applied, or by altering the rules as to jurisdiction, shall be null andvoid.

    If you've read all the way down here, i'd like to read your thoughts on this topic.. To me both their claims paragraph and the Montreal convention are on my side. And even if their items exclusion was right, it still goes against the convention. I know low cost airlines try to make money by adding services and providing a minimum customer service but that shouldn't exclude them from respecting the Law. For god's sake they didn't even offer to refund the checked luggage extra they had me pay for something that never arrived in HK! I have already complained with the HK Counsumer Council but they give them the same copy/pasted answer they gave me.

    Thanks in advance for your advice.

    Nuru


  2. #2

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    6,714

    Travel insurance.

    Kowloon Goon and HK_Katherine like this.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2010
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    how much was the painting?


  4. #4

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    a g got lost


  5. #5

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    How can the airline have no responsibility if they lose your luggage? At worst they should refund the fee they charged you!


  6. #6

    The painting was 98,000 JPY, the extra fee for the luggage (that they don't even offer to refund) was 5900 JPY. I do have a travel insurance through my credit card but it's a question of principles, it seems the law is on my side and I just hate companies that try to get away with it. If we let them do they won't learn and feel empowered to screw over everybody.


  7. #7

    Join Date
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    not sure how much the overall value is (cant be arsed doing currency conversion), file a small claims and sue their arse for the whole amount 98K + 5.9K yen


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckster007:
    not sure how much the overall value is (cant be arsed doing currency conversion), file a small claims and sue their arse for the whole amount 98K + 5.9K yen
    I agree, maybe the whole thing will take months and potentially cost more but in the end i can't let them get away with it

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    7,790
    Quote Originally Posted by nuruhuine:
    I agree, maybe the whole thing will take months and potentially cost more but in the end i can't let them get away with it
    Small claims is for value below 50K HKD, you pay a one time registration fee which should around a hundred HKDs only and thats it, no lawyers involved so it wont cost you a lot, only time.

    CLIC - Bringing or Defending a Civil Case: How to start a civil action

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckster007:
    Small claims is for value below 50K HKD, you pay a one time registration fee which should around a hundred HKDs only and thats it, no lawyers involved so it wont cost you a lot, only time.

    CLIC - Bringing or Defending a Civil Case: How to start a civil action
    Yes I've been reading on this today https://www.judiciary.hk/en/court_se...lities/sc.html, That's what the HK Counsumer Council advises too if you are not satisfied with the reply from the company. Obviously I am not since they copy/pasted the same thing, that states that I am in my rights anyway. They can't even read their own website properly..The matter is between $3,000 but does not exceed $17,000 so the filing of the claim cost $40. I can afford that