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Horrible Bosses

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  1. #21

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    good luck buddy. my boss at the moment is pretty good. fair, gives the right amount of work, doesn't ask for too much, always follows up on almost every little thing, but not really a micro manager, lets me manage my team on my own.

    i kinda like bdw's approach, though i realize some might think it lazy or just not dealing with the problem, i actually think its fine, its almost like hes thinking out loud and prioritizing as things go... as long as you are happy with the job...


  2. #22

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    Welcome to Hong Kong.

    Sounds like a crappy, but normal asian boss.

    I wouldnt do work outside of office hours. If you let this happen now, it will only get worse. They will always ask for more because in their mind, you are their slave, as they are paying you.

    Best to do your own business here and hire cheap help as appropriate.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using GeoClicks Mobile

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  3. #23

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    GTI, strikes me that the big-picture stuff is really important to keep in mind, perhaps just as much as your immediate responsibilities on the home front.

    If your boss has a good network of contacts you can tap into and if an IPO is still on the cards (and especially if you have some shares/options coming your way), then it could make a heap of sense to put up with a lot.

    Has the boss told you or hinted that you are not doing a good job? If not, then maybe he's happy with you. Having worked for some older Chinese managers myself, I learnt early on not to expect too much in terms of feedback or encouragement. If they say nothing, it usually means your doing okay.

    Of course, you haven't told us whether or not your boss might be a traditional Chinese manager (or whether you are Hong Kong people yourself), so I won't presume he is. Same can be the case for western managers, both young and old. It will come down to character at the end of the day, but there can also be a cultural aspect to consider in some cases.

    On that last point, Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers takes a pretty mature look at how culture can affect how people behave without getting involved in any racism as such.

    If your boss is in fact of the older traditional Chinese manager type, then perhaps a colleague can give you some insight into his moods, lack of feedback etc. Sometimes bosses like this can purposely do things indirectly, too, so you might even find that your colleague has heard something the boss has said about you.

    But to go back to the first issue of keeping the bigger picture in mind, I remember as a young solicitor working at a top tier law firm and absolutely hating working for most of my bosses (many of them control freaks, mentally unstable but good at what they did). Still, it proved to be an excellent career move, I learned a lot (including how not to treat people!) and the money (if not the hours) was great.

    I lasted just over a year at that firm, which I have always thought was a real achievement ...

    Last edited by John Doe Jr; 22-05-2012 at 11:38 AM.
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  4. #24

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    GTI - from what you have told us about the first, I'm assuming you have not been there long. I also assume it's a relatively new firm, possibly entrepreneurial and growing. (I assume this from the bit about growing and listing on the HKSE). Using those assumptions, I'd add the following.....
    Many entrepreneurs have good ideas and get a business going. They may have an idea, they may have contacts, they are often (if they get to a 12 person firm as yours appears to be) have some idea of how to manage a business. But many are not trained in ALL the aspects they need to run a business - for example, communicating with staff! They may have never been to MBA school and done the People Management course..... they are just figuring it out as they go along! As JohnDoe indicated, if they are Chinese too, then they come from an entirely different management culture to what you are used to.

    All of which makes for a different style and possible not a great deal of management skill.

    My last boss used to drive me crazy. He did many of the things you accuse your boss of doing - requests at the last minute, getting stuff written up "just to educate him", not telling folks what is going on, asking for work at odd hours. Used to drive me crazy. It still does - he's now my business partner and does all the same things! On the other hand, he's super intelligent, has a great network of people, sells great projects and is an excellent consultant. As well as being a nice bloke. He's just an awful manager. He knows this and he works at it. He genuinely believes he communicates well - we did used to have a personal joke about "telepathy" because he would assume that one could figure out what was going on from a couple of one-line emails and a remark as he ran out the door ... needless to say I couldn't and neither could anyone else.... It doesn't mean I should have resigned back then (I didn't; I followed him to HK and now am in business with him) - it just meant you had to work at it. With a western boss this is not too hard - most of them are amenable to being told what they are bad at and having a frank discussion about how to improve things .... I've never had a Chinese boss so I hesitate to say whether this would work with them - others may be better able to comment on how you can bridge any cultural gaps that might exist!

    What I would say is that sitting passively fuming does nothing useful. Find a way to communicate. Why not ask him WHY he told you he needed X for a meeting when none existed? (you might find out that it was scheduled and the client changed the date at the last minute - would you still feel so pissed?). Ask him why he didn't tell you about the meetings he wants you to do. (he may have assumed that you knew, that the "grapevine" or the secretary or whatever filled you in because that's what he wanted but forgot to actually issue the order ......) If you get nothing back, if he refuses to discuss it, or gets aggressive or this is all hugely negative, THEN you can reassess your options. But until you understand how he works and why he works in that way, you won't be able to make an effective response.

    Ignore all the people who just agree you have a horrible boss and should leave. Until you figure this out, you won't know how to avoid getting into a similar situation somewhere else, and you will learn SO much more from sticking it out and finding solutions. The world is FULL of people who are untrained for what they are doing. Doesn't make them bad people, it makes them human and doing the best they can. You'll have to deal with them all in the future, so you might as well start learning now. Good luck!

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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe Jr:
    Do you have any longer-term plans/dreams you want to discuss (might make things a bit more bearable for you, don't know), or do you just want to keep your nose to the grindstone for the time being?
    No, JD, I think the OP's motive was clear from the outset: He's essentially trapped, so he just wants to hear from other people who have it worse!

  6. #26

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    Trying to attract employees with a promise of HKSE IPO is an old trick. Call me synical. Unless you have a contract offering you stock or options I doubt he would give you anything out of the goodness of his heart.

    Now if it was a tech start up with a bunch of guys your age the idea of an eventual listing might sound attractive albeit very remote. But a 60 old guy in a crappy office? Does not sound likely to me.

    I presume you are seeking better opportunities? Why not learn about his business and then branch out on your own and start a competing business?


  7. #27

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    or we could call you cynical....

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  8. #28

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    complain complain complain. If you can't even handle your boss, how are you going to handle the IPO with lawyer, bankers, auditors breathing down your neck? Last I checked Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg didn't started out in a huge room with enough space to putt their golf balls. You don't like it, fix it. You can't fix it, fix yourself. If you can't fix yourself, quit....... or whine on Geo

    Three Types of People to Fire Immediately - Businessweek


  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe Jr:

    But to go back to the first issue of keeping the bigger picture in mind, I remember as a young solicitor working at a top tier law firm and absolutely hating working for most of my bosses (many of them control freaks, mentally unstable but good at what they did). Still, it proved to be an excellent career move, I learned a lot (including how not to treat people!) and the money (if not the hours) was great.
    so true of the 'bosses' at top tier firms even today...

    I've been trying to think of a particular bad boss story for the OP, but it is hard to pick out just one as most of my bosses have been controlling, hypersensitive, unstable, substance abusing, couldn't-give-a-sh*t about your life types that are also insanely smart and driven to make money and keep their client's happy. OP, just be happy that your boss isn't (a) attempting to pimp you out to clients, (b) propositining you, (c) threatening you with physical violence, (d) drunk or hung over ALL the time or (e) in the middle of a nasty divorce that has nearly turned them into an ogre

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello_there:
    so true of the 'bosses' at top tier firms even today...
    "even today"? Makes feel like I'm as old as my Geo profile picture

    But I'm sure it's true of many law firms today and probably always will be - hence, my advice to quit the law asap.

    As it was said of Charlie Munger (Warren Buffett's right hand man at Berkshire Hathaway):

    Munger quit practicing law in 1965 after 17 years, because "sometimes you're on the wrong side. Often you're dealing with unreasonable people where you can't fix things fast. It's inefficient. I like the discipline of backing my own judgments with my own money. It suits my temperament better. Of course, I also realized that the upper potentialities were better outside of law."

    I also like what someone once said about becoming partner in a major law firm being like winning first prize in a pie eating competition, only to find out that the first prize is a pie ...
    Last edited by John Doe Jr; 22-05-2012 at 04:15 PM.
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