Salary Negotiations

[Ezzel]

Hi guys,

New to this forum and looking for some advice. I am negotiating a potential offer to relocate from Syd to HK for a multinational telco working as product manager for their global services (mixture of product dev, strategy and program mgmt). I'm on a great salary package in Australia and when I research some of the local offers for this position the market rates appear to be below what i'm currently on. The role itself requires an expat as

My question for the community is

1. Are expat packages indeed no longer the norm (i.e accommodation subsidized, flights home each year + anything else)
2. What benefits have others been recently able to negotiate OR was it simply a relocation package (i.e a one way flight, 1 months accommodation + relocation costs)
3. Any idea of what a role such as this might be expected to be paid per month?

I'm a senior manager who has been in telco with over 12 years experience. The local market rates don't appear to be that great and i'm searching for reasons for why I could justify a move.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[bibbju]

Unless you're very lucky (or very very very senior), expat packages seem to be a thing of the past. The employer who moved me out to HK insisted that all expats were on local contracts (any expats on old-style expat contracts had to either move to local or leave the company) with just basic relocation expenses paid.

[kimwy66]

Original Post Deleted

Just because you don't get an 'expat' package doesn't mean you get a local salary. We don't get any extra benefits that locals don't get. But we wouldn't be here if the salary wasn't extremely attractive.

Some industries have very high salary points compared to the same job in home countries. Engineering consultancy can be one of these (with the possible exception of Australia, although I think salary points are coming down a bit there).

Some companies find other ways to make renumeration other than contentious 'expat' benefits. My husband's does it with shares in the global company that are invisible at local level.

[bibbju]

Original Post Deleted

Oh TB get off your high horse just this once. I don't know whether you're a wannabe bully or just an arsehole (most likely both) but back on my Ignore List you go. You have the dubious distinction of being the only Geo member on it which really shows how very little I think of you and your antagonistic posts.

I don't know ANY expats in HK who are still on expat contracts. As for my former employer's policy, given that they employ just under 30,000 people in HK, what I wrote is a reasonable indication of the current trend.

[Ezzel]

Guys, thanks for the feedback thus far. Sounds like expat packages are plausible but a niche dependant on organisation and position.

As a walkaway position. Do you think for a high end middle manager it would be unreasonable to ask for

- relocation costs and one way flight
- 1 months accommodation
- comprehensive medical insurance
- 80K per month + incentive 12.5% bonus
- 10% MPF
- once off share allocation

Trying to get to a comfort level where I have a understanding of where the market is at for a role that can't be filled by a local. Or is that too high?

[jimbo]

http://m.robertwalters.com.hk/salary-checker.html

To get an idea of hk market rates.
And also get an idea of actual costs of living in Hk too.

[Ezzel]

Thanks for the link Jimbo. I have had a look at all the recruitment sites and the challenge i'm having with this is the market rates on the HK recruiter websites are the market rates for local talent and not the market rate for an expat position. To take a local package would be taking a step back but I want to know what others have been offered to gauge what might be plausible and relative for an expat.

In terms of the cost of living. Australia is well and truly up there in the most expensive cities however Hong Kong is not far behind. Rent is sky high and any savings due to food / transport etc go right out the window.

[kimwy66]

Guys, thanks for the feedback thus far. Sounds like expat packages are plausible but a niche dependant on organisation and position.

As a walkaway position. Do you think for a high end middle manager it would be unreasonable to ask for

- relocation costs and one way flight
- 1 months accommodation
- comprehensive medical insurance
- 80K per month + incentive 12.5% bonus
- 10% MPF
- once off share allocation

Trying to get to a comfort level where I have a understanding of where the market is at for a role that can't be filled by a local. Or is that too high?

Relocation package was one benefit we got. it was one month's salary for shipping. We also got 1 month in a serviced apartment and a food allowance for each member of the family for one month ($200 per day per person). Medical insurance is a standard benefit for my husband's company, including locals.

On MPF, be aware the withdrawal clauses that an employer can use to get back their contributions. Negotiation should also include the company opting out of using your MPF company contributions to fund redundancy, long-service awards, and that the reducing scale deductions of employer contributions should you leave in the first few years to do not apply.

My husband's company would not negotiate on MPF withdrawal conditions on the basis they would not do it for local employees (which is morally wrong to do it to anyone IMO, especially as this is a UK company that makes a big play of employee welfare). So my husband refused to join as permanent staff and remains on secondment contract. Additionally, MPF is a rubbish scheme, and by staying on secondment contract he doesn't have to have an MPF and gets his UK pension paid into.

[Ezzel]

Original Post Deleted

I have heard from others that they are getting above the mandatory 5%. My home country is around 10% hence my suggestion. Is there a ceiling where they arent allowed to contribute more?

[HowardCoombs]

Original Post Deleted

Nothing to do with ego or being fragile - the way you disagree borders on being ...... Thats the reason I keep calling you Gritty - name fits quite nicely.

Her assertion : Unless you're very lucky (or very very very senior), expat packages seem to be a thing of the past....
happens to be true and I agree with it with my experience of the past 20 years here....

Have a different opinion and present a different facet from your industry.