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Is it all in my mind?

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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by iliketurtles:
    I agree with TB. All financial packages being strictly equal, for a medium to long term posting, you'd be nuts to turn down London, NYC, Paris etc in favour of HK. The main reason people come to HK is the financial benefit. Take that away and every nice thing that HK offers, everywhere else does too, without a lot of negatives.
    There is one thing that is missing from all those places and one of the big reasons we stayed here to raise our kids here : Safety.

    I love NYC, London, Paris and always look forward to visiting, but I would not want to raise kids in any of them.
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmbf:
    I just want to add one thing - this quote above makes HK seem like a hardship posting. It's not. HK is an AMAZING place. Just a few highlights:
    You forgot the ' from my viewpoint' . Without that your statement is invalid.

    From my viewpoint HK is a hardship posting, and it did take a shedload more money to get us on the plane.

    We had a nice lifestyle, and the only time we get close to it now is when we leave HK. The only reason we stay is the money that we can use to have an even nicer lifestyle when we leave for good.

    It all depends on your viewpoint.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowardCoombs:
    There is one thing that is missing from all those places and one of the big reasons we stayed here to raise our kids here : Safety.

    I love NYC, London, Paris and always look forward to visiting, but I would not want to raise kids in any of them.
    While all these cities mentioned by you and a few other posters are all international cities. They're all very different in terms of lifestyle, culture, rhythm, and what to expect. A 100k/month salary in NYC is spent very differently than 100k/month salary here in HK. I grew up in NYC and it very hard and silly to compare living in these two cities.

    I hope the OP's knows and has done research on these topics.


    _________________

    Personally, I find Hong Kong's HR to be evasive even through repeated inquiries. I can assume if you don't hear reply in 3 or more weeks, your negotiation has probably failed. Locally, they just pretend it never happened. Of course, it doesn't hurt if you're a aggressive negotiator to keep negotiating. I am not sure whether you have other offers to provide a safety net but if you do, take the aggressive stance. If you don't, it's a risk and you risk the offer.

    If you wanted the MNC job that you evaluated to have good prospects, I would sacrifice some potential income (after all it is not permanent). Once you're in, you can always increase the price by finding an incentive. While you have a niche skill, the difference between 80k and 125k is huge. if they aren't keen on paying that price, they can easily just ignore you. After that, I wouldn't even be confident whether they will honor their previous offer because their attitude towards you has changed.

    Good luck!

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowardCoombs:
    There is one thing that is missing from all those places and one of the big reasons we stayed here to raise our kids here : Safety.

    I love NYC, London, Paris and always look forward to visiting, but I would not want to raise kids in any of them.
    True, HK is safer. I sometimes wonder whether, on this point, it isn't better to bring your child up in LDN/NYC etc so that they have safety awareness built in. I have some friends who grew up in Singa and HK living in London and Manchester and they're completely oblivious to the most obvious forms of danger. The downside is that you have to keep a far keener eye on them. I don't know what the answer is but I do agree that your kid is probably less likely to be beaten up, mugged, raped or killed when compared to a major city. How likely that is in London if you take proper precautions, I'm not sure. I don't think it is very likely.
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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by iliketurtles:
    True, HK is safer. I sometimes wonder whether, on this point, it isn't better to bring your child up in LDN/NYC etc so that they have safety awareness built in.
    My kids have been out and about riding public transport and roaming the streets since the age of 8 like I did when I was growing up.
    Kids in the west get cooped up at home till they are much older or they get driven everywhere while being told what a terrible world it is out there. I cant see how that is teaching them anything good.
    I don't know what the answer is but I do agree that your kid is probably less likely to be beaten up, mugged, raped or killed when compared to a major city. How likely that is in London if you take proper precautions, I'm not sure. I don't think it is very likely.
    Whether it is your kid or its you, you always have to be aware of your surroundings, people around you and time of the day. The point being, in Hong Kong, you can go where you want, when you want and the chance of you being hassled (let alone injured) is practically zero. In other cities, you have to actively stay away from trouble spots & trouble times.

  6. #16

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    Safe for those who have their wits about them, safe for those who avoid chunks of the city, safe for those who dont take public transport after XXXXX, safe for those....

    I have no worries sending my kids anywhere in Hong Kong, any time of the day or night using any form of public transport they happen to choose. I would not be worried even if they were heading to a party and I knew they would be coming home not 100% sober. I cant say the same about any of the other cities we've mentioned so far.
    imparanoic likes this.

  7. #17

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    To the OP: The decision as to whether or not to accept your offer basically comes down to whether or not you want to. Simple as that. You can base it on financial considerations - as you have in your posts - or you can take into account the non-financial attributes. Some of these are coming up in the off-topic responses above - which can be summed up very simply: Some people love HK and other people hate it. If you are in the first category, a pay cut makes sense. If you are in the second category, stick to your guns. Since we have no idea (and you may not know either!) which category you are in, it's hard to offer advice.
    As an employer I can give you some insight. When I was with a large international firm, all job offers had to go back to head office. Everything took weeks and we lost a number of candidates because of the lags. Now as a small firm, we can respond very quickly but the downside is we are much more price sensitive. You have highlighted "what you are worth". Good start. The firm may be working on "what can I afford"? In an ideal world a firm might be able to afford what people are worth but it's not an ideal world. So they pay what they can afford and if the best candidate sticks to their guns on value, they just move to the second best or third best person.... that's the risk you take. Only you know (since it's both industry and firm specific) how likely this firm is to be price sensitive. It's not a HK question. It's a firm question.

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  8. #18

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    To Synicist: I don't know much about negotiating with jobs. But do keep the tax differences in mind, and how having experience in a different city/contenient will help your career development. Your UK contract may say 40 hours/week, but do you actually get paid for the additional hours you work? Your commuting time could be far less, too, in Hong Kong.
    Since several people are saying rather harsh words about the quality of life in HK, I just want to add my two cents and say that I've been having some amazing experiences lately with Hong Kong's outdoors, doing things I could never do in London. There's some amazingly beautiful hills and waters here. It's also fun to get to know a different culture and experience different food, etc. But it's all up to your life choices and what you value right now in life and if you want a different cultural experience.


  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    You forgot the ' from my viewpoint' . Without that your statement is invalid.

    From my viewpoint HK is a hardship posting, and it did take a shedload more money to get us on the plane.

    We had a nice lifestyle, and the only time we get close to it now is when we leave HK. The only reason we stay is the money that we can use to have an even nicer lifestyle when we leave for good.

    It all depends on your viewpoint.
    Yes of course all posts submitted here are subjective. I just wanted to offer a counterpoint to some of the negativity posted earlier.

    As for the hardship posting issue - again its down to personal perspective. For example, I live in a fantastic complex with swimming pools, a gym, spa / massage facilities, a great children's playground etc etc etc. I can afford a full time domestic helper to help out. I shudder to think what I would have to pay back home to have the same setup (if it is possible at all).

    As for things to do, there's TONS of things to do if you look for them. For example, last weekend I took my daughter to the Hong Kong Heritage Museum to look at some interesting animations and designs by Studio Ghibli. This weekend there is a huge inflatable castle carnival out at the Asia World Expo. Next weekend we might go kite flying at Tai Po Waterfront Park (weather permitting). After that I'm planning a nice junk ride with family out at Sai Kung.

    In short, HK is what you make of it. It has things to do for everyone. If you come out with a positive and open attitude then I believe you will do well.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmbf:
    Yes of course all posts submitted here are subjective. I just wanted to offer a counterpoint to some of the negativity posted earlier.
    It isn't negativity, it other poster's subjective, honestly held opinion of Hong Kong. Just because it is counter to your experience doesn't make it negative. Knowing that there are a number of people saying 'don't come to HK if you have to lose out financially to do so because the gain isn't worth it' would be valuable information to me if I were a first timer here.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmbf:
    As for the hardship posting issue - again its down to personal perspective. For example, I live in a fantastic complex with swimming pools, a gym, spa / massage facilities, a great children's playground etc etc etc. I can afford a full time domestic helper to help out. I shudder to think what I would have to pay back home to have the same setup (if it is possible at all).
    If those things matter to you in the grand scheme, then it is great for you that Hong Kong allows you to have them and would probably raise your opinion of the place.

    I can't imagine anyone wanting to take a drop in salary to get over here and live in a high-rise with a helper to clean the loo for you, but then that's my personal view. I don't value high-rise living with a crowd of people, and I have personal objections to the exploitation of cheap foreign labour in what Amnesty International, rightly in my opinion, describes as slave-like conditions.

    So, yes, totally agree with you, those things are only valuable if your personal perspective allows you to appreciate them.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmbf:
    As for things to do, there's TONS of things to do if you look for them. For example, last weekend I took my daughter to the Hong Kong Heritage Museum to look at some interesting animations and designs by Studio Ghibli. This weekend there is a huge inflatable castle carnival out at the Asia World Expo. Next weekend we might go kite flying at Tai Po Waterfront Park (weather permitting). After that I'm planning a nice junk ride with family out at Sai Kung.

    In short, HK is what you make of it. It has things to do for everyone. If you come out with a positive and open attitude then I believe you will do well.
    You started so well, but this all falls into absolute-speak, and a tad condescending at that. The implication of your statements above is that people who do not come to Hong Kong with the view of it being better than the place they left do not make enough of their time here. We just aren't doing it right or doing enough of it, and that is why we fail to rank HK as number one in all things.

    I am very busy when in Hong Kong, and I have done all of the things you mention with my daughter and more. But none of them are are the pinnacle of my experiences of such activities.

    When we are in Hong Kong we miss a day in Paris at the Louvre, or nipping out to one of many historic sites and museums around us, or popping to the nearby lake.

    When we are in Paris at the Science Museum, we never say 'we wish we were at the Space Museum in HK instead'. When we launch a kite down the hill into our meadow, we never say 'wish we were doing this in HK in summer'. When we rent a kayak on Lac de Vassiviere, and then step out of the boat and walk into the terrace bar and watch sunset, we never reminisce about a junk trip in HK being better.

    In summary, Hong Kong is what you make of it, but trying to make it out to be absolutely one of the most fantastic places on the planet, and in doing so trying to denigrate those who do not agree with you, is doing a disservice to those looking for honest opinions.

    You can certainly do well without ranking Hong Kong as a great place to live, but in that case, make sure you have the reward secured to make up for what you are leaving behind.
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