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Doing a job 'not very well'....can they...?

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  1. #11

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    It seems you have signed a contract that is unfavourable to you. You could check with Labour Department if the terms in the contract are legal or not. If illegal it will be overruled by Labour Laws.

    shri likes this.

  2. #12

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    What drunken master said. Sounds dubious to me. And always harder to enforce "you must pay" than "you won't be paid".


  3. #13

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    Well if I resign, then they simply don't pay me my final salary as a default way of enforcing 'you must pay us a month's salary if you resign'.

    So the simple way seems to be to under-perform so they let me go. There's nothing in the contract specifically about that, I'm just hoping that legally, they are obliged to pay me up to the 'point of departure' for the work I've done, even if not done well.


  4. #14

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    Check the employment ordinance but I think they are obliged to pay for work. There is no definition of quality in there. They are allowed to withhold the final month for payment for taxes if you are on a visa and they think you might leave Hong Kong though but must pay you once you settle your taxes.


  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffin3:
    Well if I resign, then they simply don't pay me my final salary as a default way of enforcing 'you must pay us a month's salary if you resign'.

    So the simple way seems to be to under-perform so they let me go. There's nothing in the contract specifically about that, I'm just hoping that legally, they are obliged to pay me up to the 'point of departure' for the work I've done, even if not done well.
    Call the labour department, they have a hotline. Ask them if those terms are even legal/enforceable.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffin3:
    Well if I resign, then they simply don't pay me my final salary as a default way of enforcing 'you must pay us a month's salary if you resign'.

    So the simple way seems to be to under-perform so they let me go. There's nothing in the contract specifically about that, I'm just hoping that legally, they are obliged to pay me up to the 'point of departure' for the work I've done, even if not done well.
    Your employer can't simply do as he wants. Don't be intimidated and get legal advice.

  7. #17

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    They need to pay you for the time worked. If they dont pay, you can make a complaint to the labour department. I dont think they will want the hassle if its a school. The other option is just to walk away. Rarely do employers chase the notice period. Yes they will make threats, but the minute they need to spend money to have a lawyer involved, they will not bother. You just need to ramp up the number of days off sick, show up late to work ect. Theyre fire you soon enough.


  8. #18

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    Thank for the ideas. If needed, yes, I am pretty sure I can make it clear to work that any lawyer costs they send will not make it worth chasing me.
    I guess they do have to pay for work done, that's good.

    I'm not too clear on this bit

    They are allowed to withhold the final month for payment for taxes if you are on a visa and they think you might leave Hong Kong though but must pay you once you settle your taxes.
    How would I pay tax or sort out the tax amounts if i am missing a large chunk of money to pay with, or to use to calculate how much I should pay?

    How would I get them to pay me in the end? Show the a tax office receipt?

    If I understand correctly, in HK, employers don't pay tax for us? We are supposed to put some aside each month and send it to gov't once a year (or on leaving HK)?

  9. #19

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    Re taxes, see What tax obligation do I have as an Employer? and www.ird.gov.hk/eng/pdf/pam46e.pdf (pdf). You need to show a "letter of release" issued by the IRD

    Last edited by drumbrake; 10-02-2016 at 10:06 PM.
    HK_Katherine likes this.

  10. #20

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    Sounds like you are working for Bolly Wingdom.

    Yes, you have a contract, you have a notice period + 1 month cash penalty to quit within the first year? So, I would not "skip" on it, hoping I don't get sued in the future, because legally, you owe the money, so why set yourself up for a losing lawsuit, IF they happened to try to go after you, because you feel uncomfortable treating them the same way you are being treated? Are you wanting to leave HK because of this employer, or you're tired of HK, or ...?

    You can easily get fired, so you don't have to pay the penalty, and I'm sure they have a notice period or termination payment that you are entitled to, what does the contract say, 1 week or 1 month? Pre or post probationary period?

    You probably have a clause that you get charged for being late to work? Well, what if you are late to class, or late coming back from lunch. You have to find a way to play it back. Eventually they will fire you, and you are entitled to your full pay plus notice period, irrespective of the quality of work that you did. Now, if you do something crazy stupid violent or steal, then you can be immediately dismissed without payment, but even then they owe you what you worked (but not the notice period, annual leave pay, etc).

    Use your sick days
    Know your quota
    On top of your quota, government sick leave kicks in at 4 or more days sick in a row. So you go to the doctor, get a sick note for a week, then call sick for an entire week. They will quickly change their tone on how they treat you.

    Repeat again 2 weeks later.

    Come back late from lunch, go hang out in another classroom and bother that teacher, let class out 15 minutes early, etc.

    Calculating final payment
    Salary pro-rate + notice period + annual leave remaining

    Now, they will negotiate and by negotiate it is something like hey you get nothing or you only get this. If you sign anything, then you lose all of your rights, even if you were scammed. Legally, they must pay within 7 days and you do NOT have to sign anything. Don't sign receipt of final payment, because that means you waive all liability (they might owe you something you forgot, you never know, but it doesn't benefit you to sign anything). You can cause problems later, go to the labour department, and they will pay, but you can't give in or back down.

    Good luck!

    Last edited by MandM!; 15-02-2016 at 01:49 PM.