Pay employer a fee if I quit?

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  1. #11

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    I just had a similar experience at a kindergarten interview and was told exactly the same figure as Zoe.

    I say interview - the principle spoke to me (ie. I wasn't given much opportunity to speak) for ten minutes, showed me around the building then told me to wait while they sorted out my contract. CONTRACT? Was I being offered the job? She had said nothing to that effect, only the same kind of "do you think you could do that?" questions I'd had at every other interview.

    An HOUR later she called me in to ask if I could I wait longer as "they" still hadn't finished the contract. I wasn't sure what this really meant so I said I could wait but asked if I could take the contract away to look over it. Apparently it had to be signed there so she told me the "terms" and said I could come back tomorrow to sign it. Pay, annual leave etc all sounded reasonable but I was still unsure about this 25K fee. Especially in light of the 3 month notice period. I understand completely that these companies want to avoid teachers coming and going (someone I know compared english teaching in HK to a bar job anywhere else in the world) but to be honest the whole thing just made me feel quite confused and uncomfortable.

    I've been for quite a few interviews here now and at most of them I have received really mixed signals. Maybe it's just a different style than I've been used to but often I felt like I had already been offered the job, before they really knew much about me. The woman at this interview didn't seem to need any convincing that I could teach, despite knowing that I have no real experience and little training.

    Zenon, your advice is reassuring and this contract did have a 3 month probation period but I just felt like the whole thing was a bit strange.

    Bizarrely, I think this might be the only company I've encountered that wouldn't be expecting me to work illegally while my visa was being processed.


  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoogirl:
    I felt like I had already been offered the job, before they really knew much about me. The woman at this interview didn't seem to need any convincing that I could teach, despite knowing that I have no real experience and little training.
    Once they've confirmed you are the right colour to keep the parents happy that's about it for many places. Allegedly. Then all they have to do is get you to sign a dodgy contract and not worry too much about the visa. There are Eastern Europeans teaching here who couldn't pass O'level English and whose accent is incredibly strong, but they are the right colour...

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    Once they've confirmed you are the right colour to keep the parents happy that's about it for many places. Allegedly. Then all they have to do is get you to sign a dodgy contract and not worry too much about the visa. There are Eastern Europeans teaching here who couldn't pass O'level English and whose accent is incredibly strong, but they are the right colour...
    I'm getting this impression.

    I seem to be compliling an increasingly comprehensive list of kindergartens/language centres that seem legitimate...or not so much.

    PS O Levels? Methinks you are showing your age

  4. #14

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    O'levels are still used by many countries in the ex-Empire who aspire to the quality of former times. They couldn't use the same system for the UK any more because so few people would pass, but many are still set by the UK Examining Boards:
    CIE | Qualifications: O-Level
    .: SEAB - GCE O-Level Examination :.


  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    O'levels are still used by many countries in the ex-Empire who aspire to the quality of former times. They couldn't use the same system for the UK any more because so few people would pass, but many are still set by the UK Examining Boards:
    CIE | Qualifications: O-Level
    .: SEAB - GCE O-Level Examination :.
    Now that doesn't sound pedantic at all... Instead ESF(and many other international schools) replaced it with IB which couldn't possibly be up to the standard of the mighty O level.

    How could those of us possibly have managed to survive in today's competitive world without having gone through this rigorous and world class educational model.

    Surely, the O level know so much more and have a vastly superior education than the people who are attending school today and they fart rose scented petals too...

    Mmm , well the interesting thing is that today's teachers would mostly be product of this grandiose system.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Mmm , well the interesting thing is that today's teachers would mostly be product of this grandiose system.
    Only the senior ones. O'levels finally stopped in English schools in 1988, so you would need to be over 35 (at least) to have taken them.

    I've no problem with IB - that seems from my limited knowledge to be a worthy qualification. ESF schools here are far, far superior to the average state school in the UK.

  7. #17

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    Termination of Contract of Employment
    Zoe, I doubt that they can impose a fee just for leaving in the first year if you give them notice. Could it have been a misunderstanding because they were unclear in their explanation and meant that you would need give sufficient notice or pay them your salary amount for that agreed period? Even if they could impose such a fee, I wouldn't accept it since it is unreasonable. Having an agreement on sufficient notice should be enough.

    Zenon, one of your comments (#1) is based on the assumption that there will be a probation period and I think you meant before 1 month, not after. People may find it hard to follow your explanation, so here is a chart (http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/...seGuide/08.pdf) for those people.

    In Hong Kong, it is not required to have a probation period. If there is no probation period and an agreed length of notice, you must comply with that agreed length of notice. If there is no probation period but no agreed length of notice, you need to give at least 7 days notice.

    If there is a requirement to give notice during a probationary period, it is only during the first month that no notice is required. After the first month, you need to give notice. If there is an agreed time, that length must be followed but cannot be less than 7 days. If there is no agreed time, it just has to be no less than 7 days.

    It is most likely that these tutorial centres will not provide a probation period and require a long length of notice. In this case,
    1. Once you start the job, if you decide to leave you are required to comply to the length of notice or pay your salary for the missing days.
    2. Yes, if you give sufficient notice, they should have no reason to sue you for extra money.
    3. You will still need to give notice after 1 year. Unless they say that the required length of notice is no longer required after one year, you would still need to comply with the agreed length of notice. If the contract said that the agreed length of notice is only for the first year, you will still need to give at least 7 days notice.

    Assuming that the tutorial centre is really nice and actually has a probation period,
    1. No notice or payment is required in the first month. After the first month, during or after the probation period, you will be required to give at least 7 days notice or wages in lieu of notice. If there is an agreed length of notice for the probation period (after the first month) and after the probation period, this will be required, as long as it is over 7 days.
    2 and 3 remain the same.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Employment for English Courses at Tuition Centres

    Zoogirl, it does seem strange that the principal did not seem interested in interviewing you. They might need to hire someone as soon as possible, perhaps because of an increase in business or to replace someone who left. Some of these 'principals' or rather administrators may or may not have knowledge about what is required for particular courses, so only ask whether they can do that job. Another possibility is that the principal is so confident in their ability to guide and train you, so they only need to know that you think you can do it and have some qualifications.

    I would suggest to point out that the fee is ridiculous and that the length of notice should be sufficient enough, especially if it is three months. I would even suggest that one month is enough time to find a replacement.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    O'Levels

    I don't think that it is necessarily true that former colonies decided to change to a different system because only a few people would pass the UK exams. The main reasons were probably political and a desire to make it more culturally relevant and possibly change areas of focus.
    Last edited by nestutor; 25-11-2008 at 10:16 AM.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by nestutor:
    O'Levels

    I don't think that it is necessarily true that former colonies decided to change to a different system because only a few people would pass the UK exams. The main reasons were probably political and a desire to make it more culturally relevant and possibly change areas of focus.
    You misunderstood my point completely. My point is that the former colonies still do O'levels because they aspire to a higher standard of education than the UK state system currently provides.

  9. #19

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    they can do it this way, put it as a 'cost' you have to return to the employer if you quit within xxx months..

    the cost can be, in most cases of relocation employment, the cost of relocation, or in the OP case, the cost of 'training' the person to become a teacher...

    if its structured properly it can be legal... so be more cautious.


  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    You misunderstood my point completely. My point is that the former colonies still do O'levels because they aspire to a higher standard of education than the UK state system currently provides.
    Sorry, you're right. I've misread what you posted earlier. I was probably too sleepy.

    I've never had to take O-levels, but I have read that the reason why they were replaced with GCSEs was because they were too exam focused. I am not sure how GCSEs compare with O-levels in terms of standards, but I would hope that they are at least the same standard. Perhaps you could shed some light on this issue.

    You still might be correct in your statement that only a few students would pass O-Level examinations, but it may not be because of the difficulty of the content but rather because they are too exam focused.

    LOL. Probably not the best thread to have this discussion.
    Last edited by nestutor; 25-11-2008 at 11:16 AM.