Acceptable local wages ?

Reply
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4
  1. #31

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Mainland
    Posts
    184

    IMO collective bargaining is illegal on the Mainland, but not in HK. However, you don't come across it in HK due to the lacking acceptance of the trade unions here.

    BTT: Census & statistics department December 2008 wage and payroll statistics:

    Fast food shops: Customer service workers: overall average HK$ 4649 with 8hrs a day, 23 days a month --> $25.27/h


  2. #32

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sai Kung
    Posts
    8,561

    like i said, it was years ago and i was shocked when i heard it... don't know if it is correct or not...


  3. #33

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sai Kung
    Posts
    8,561

    "Hong Kong Lacking Fundamental Employee Rights
    January 21 2006 - A recent report by the International Trade Union Confederation (ITUC) is critical of Hong Kong's continuing failure to ensure fundamental employment rights. It highlights lack of legal recognition for trade unions, absence of collective bargaining, and insufficient protection against various forms of discrimination.

    Lee Cheuk Yan, general secretary of the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions said:

    "The working conditions for most workers in Hong Kong - one of the richest places in the world and with a GDP per capita at the level of the UK, France, Germany and Italy - are a disgrace. Workers are exploited and denied the right to effective representation. Hong Kong is the only developed economy without legislation on maximum working hours. Working weeks of up to 60 hours and more are not unusual and yet the share of national income that goes to workers is among the lowest among the industrialized countries. It is obvious that the workers of Hong Kong suffer badly as a result of the lack of rights to effective representation."

    Unlike mainland China, independent, democratic trade unions are allowed in Hong Kong, and the right to strike is supported by legislation. However, legal and practice loopholes limit exercise of these rights. For example, the right to strike is rendered ineffective by employment contract clauses stipulating that absence can be considered breach of contract potentially leading to dismissal.

    With no recognition of collective bargaining, workers are dependent on the attitude of employers to joint negotiation and the implementation of agreements. Only 1 per cent of the workforce is covered by collective agreements and even these are not legally binding. The report argues that this is contrary to international conventions Hong Kong claims to uphold.

    Harassment and discrimination against trade union members by employers is another obstacle to effective representation and a breach of fundamental internationally agreed principles of employment. Workers sacked for trade union membership have no legal mechanism for securing reinstatement. The UN's International Labour Organization has consistently criticized this practice, but the government has shown no commitment to addressing the issue. "


  4. #34

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sai Kung
    Posts
    8,561

    although it seems that it is not technically illegal, the loopholes spoken of certainly seem to veer strongly away from legitimately being able to bargain collectively.


  5. #35

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,259

    Here is the income distribution from the last census in 2006.

    Monthly income Percentage of population
    < 1000 O.8%
    1000 - 1999 1.2%
    2000 - 3999 9.7%
    4000 - 5999 9.8%
    6000 - 7999 13.8%
    8000 - 9999 12.5%
    10000 - 14999 20.7%
    15000 - 19999 10.6%
    20000 - 24999 6.7%
    25000 - 39999 7.9%
    40000 and over 6.3%

    You can get the full report here: http://www.bycensus2006.gov.hk/FileM...06bc_hhinc.pdf


  6. #36

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    2,262
    Quote Originally Posted by dipper:
    Here is the income distribution from the last census in 2006.

    Monthly income Percentage of population
    < 1000 O.8%
    1000 - 1999 1.2%
    2000 - 3999 9.7%
    4000 - 5999 9.8%
    6000 - 7999 13.8%
    8000 - 9999 12.5%
    10000 - 14999 20.7%
    15000 - 19999 10.6%
    20000 - 24999 6.7%
    25000 - 39999 7.9%
    40000 and over 6.3%

    You can get the full report here: http://www.bycensus2006.gov.hk/FileM...06bc_hhinc.pdf
    that seems fairly standard considering the criticism of the increasing wealth gap in HK... the majority of people are around or just around the middle amount of 20k.

    I guess it doesnt show the highest earners and there must be some discussion about the sample size and deomgraphics too.

  7. #37

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,259

    Well it's the official census so the sample size is the entire population of Hong Kong.

    Not sure how you work out from that data that most people are around the middle amount of 20K. In fact only 20.9% of the population earn over 20K and the median income is 10K. Average family income is around 17K (ie. combined income of all working members of a household).

    The report covers the entire population, including the highest earners, they are in the last section - those who earn over 40K per month, the wealthiest 6.3% of the population.


  8. #38

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    2,262
    Quote Originally Posted by dipper:
    Well it's the official census so the sample size is the entire population of Hong Kong.

    Not sure how you work out from that data that most people are around the middle amount of 20K. In fact only 20.9% of the population earn over 20K and the median income is 10K. Average family income is around 17K (ie. combined income of all working members of a household).

    The report covers the entire population, including the highest earners, they are in the last section - those who earn over 40K per month, the wealthiest 6.3% of the population.
    The sample may or may not include workers who are not HK locals. How about the expatriates, they are normally well rewarded and would skew the results upwards. How about the Domestic Helpers? are they amongst the low paid workers? In that case, does it only take into account the month salary? how about other sources such as shares or perks or housing?

    the highest boundary is 40k a month. why is that the cutoff rate? there seem to be alot who earn over 100k a month and what is the % for those who earn over 100k compared to those who earn 40-50k?

    if there are 6% who earn 42k and 0.3% who earn 100k, then it is not so skewed. however, if there are 0.3% who earn 40-100k and 6% over 100k, then suddenly the wealth distribution is not so healthy.

  9. #39

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HK
    Posts
    14,606
    Quote Originally Posted by UK/HKboy:
    The sample may or may not include workers who are not HK locals. How about the expatriates, they are normally well rewarded and would skew the results upwards.

    if you took the time to open the internet link you would see that it includes ALL workers (even expatriates)

  10. #40

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,259

    As Mat says, you can see the details in the link. The census basically includes everyone in Hong Kong at the time of the census. Actually, 2006 was a by-census, the full census is every 10 years and the last one was in 2001 but there is no reason to think that the by-census was skewed, the figures are in line with the results of the 2001 full census, the 2006 figures are just a little more up to date. Details of the difference between a by-census and census are in the link. If you want to see the 2001 full census (or any other) you can go to the Census & Statistics Dept Website here: Census and Statistics Department - Home

    The sample includes expatriates and domestic helpers. For domestic helpers, as you can see from the statistics, the minimum domestic helper salary puts them somewhere around the top end of the lowest paid 10% in Hong Kong.

    In terms of what is included in the definition of income, here is the definition from the report:

    “Monthly Income from Main Employment(每月主要職業收入): For employers or self-employed
    persons, this is the amount earned excluding expenses incurred in running their main business. For
    employees, this is the total amount earned from their main employment including salary or wage, bonus, commission, overtime, housing allowance, tips and other cash allowances. New Year bonus and double pay are excluded.”

    The 40K figure is not a cut-off, the category includes everyone who earns over 40K per month. As it is already one of the smallest categories (only 6.3%) of the population there doesn’t seem to be any particular reason to break that category down further in the main table compared to say the 6000 – 7999 category which contains more than twice as many people (13.8%). If you’re particularly interested in this category then I guess you can check out the links and get the detailed data.


Reply
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4