Coffee in Hong Kong?

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  1. #21

    Nespresso anyone?

    Hi All,

    My place of work brought in the nespresso machines last year and I have been addicted to the espresso/coffee. But I'm moving office now and I'm considering either getting the rental of the larger machines (for commercial use) or even buying my own "Cube". Does anyone here have the cube for home use & any tips/suggestions?

    Going back to the coffee, they do have 19 blends and i've only tried 4 of them so far and the crema is beautiful:

    https://secure.nespresso.com/precom/n_art_hk_en.html

    I know it takes the fun and art out of making your own coffe, but oh so convinient! The nespresso bar @ elements pretty impressive and you can buy your supplies @ IFC or order online.

    Or does anyone have suggestions aside this brand (nescafe) of machines that I can consider for the office?

    Cheers, Lamb.


  2. #22

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    Welsh Lamb, welcome to the thread

    Once in a while, there will be questions come up regarding ‘no sweat’ espresso like pods, Nespresso, etc.

    It has been discussed extensively in the “Seriously Good Coffee” thread, http://www.geoexpat.com/forum/thread7929-69.html

    The thread is so long I suggest read it "backward"...

    Just googling the geoexpat and you’ll find these comments

    “subpar coffee for a premium price” http://www.geoexpat.com/forum/post268405-506.html

    “You will realize why my friends now prefer just pour over coffee to coffee system (ie Nespresso).” http://www.geoexpat.com/forum/post155683-13.html

    “They really are rubbish, and cost a considerable amount to run, as you are shoe horned in having to buy capsule coffee at about $6.00HKD a shot lol.”
    http://www.geoexpat.com/forum/post205378-3.html

    In addition to that, my friend who owns Nespresso system for two years starts “hunting” for a new “perfect” espresso system. In no way that my friend will go for a real espresso as it’s messy, does not look pretty, etc. So, please take this in mind that one is probably chasing one system after another in order to achieve the good coffee.

    The person is now looking at Francis Francis X7, the super duper pod brewer that tastes ‘good’ (I heard the comment before from this person two years ago on this Nespresso system).

    In fact, Krups XP4020 and Feima 600N should beat Nespresso all the time and cost less, IMHO.

    However, you have to really not care for its look and it makes lots of sense if you go for Nespresso for the look at the expense of the taste and cost. Also, the hunting for the cool looking system is fun as if one buys a furniture..

    Nevertheless, I prefer Francis Francis X7 vs. Nespresso. It looks really cool and similar to the real espresso machine and it sports an “illy” coffee which is among the hallmark of espresso coffee. Pricewise is good too, around HK$2,800 which is only slightly more than Nespresso entry level… The red color looks really cool to me…

    Last edited by boblam07; 09-05-2009 at 02:16 PM.

  3. #23

    Nespresso machines are a good 'idiot proof' solution for someone who wants to drink decent espresso but can't be bothered with the time and effort needed from a 'real' machine.

    No harm in that - and I do find the espressos they make to be better than those of most Hong Kong coffee chains (although that's really not saying much).

    But I agree with boblam in that you should be able to beat the Nespressos with pretty much any manual machine - as long as you use good beans, a good grinder and spend some time to develop your skills.

    And as for beans - most of the boutique roasters here in Hong Kong produce excellent beans that WAY out-class Nespresso pods.

    C


  4. #24

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    My Aunt in Paris has a Nespresso Machine, a Magimix M100, which when we last visited, I had a chance to experience what these Nespresso machines are all about...

    My impression, is that for the non thinking person who has been brought up on home made instant coffee, yes the nespresso idea works well. But its not as good as what I can make at home, and the fact that you cant produce latte art in the crema, highlights its limitations compared to a proper espresso machine, that makes a nice thick crema with consistent surface tension... The Nespresso is a bit thin in its dispersion, but is only o.k in my opinion.. Great if there is nothing else available lol.

    If you are going to spend $2800HKD I'd spend another $500 and buy a Breville 800XL-Pro which were being cleared out on special at SOGO I heard for a sensational $3300HKD, or there abouts. Which is a great looking machine, and bang for buck has few peers, unless you spend over $5000HKD in my opinion...

    Last edited by Skyhook; 09-05-2009 at 04:32 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    If you are going to spend $2800HKD I'd spend another $500 and buy a Breville 800XL-Pro which were being cleared out on special at SOGO I heard for a sensational $3300HKD, or there abouts. Which is a great looking machine, and bang for buck has few peers, unless you spend over $5000HKD in my opinion...
    It is a very good looking machine but I'd take a look at this thread before buying it though:

    CoffeeGeek - Espresso: Espresso Machines, Breville 800es

    If you want a good machine in that price range, I'd go with a Gaggia or the Solis SL70. The Solis in particular is supposed to be a great steamer for it's price: 咖啡設備優惠組合——香港咖啡會專 為您提供各類原產咖啡豆、拼配咖啡 錫蘭紅茶、咖啡機、其他咖啡設備及 其有關食品和消耗品

    Cheers,
    C

  6. #26

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    Hmmm o.k, so you get info from coffegeek like Bob..

    I respect the publication below, as it's aimed at people who work in the cafe/coffee industry and majority of the contributors are very experienced Baristi/roasters/cafe owners... My kind of experienced opinion. Crema Magazine: Australian Cafes, coffee, lifestyle and more Entry Level Espresso Machine Review (Machines under $1,000)

    Not to mention that CHOICE magazine also rated the Breville very highly in their last review.

    I do however agree that spending a bit more and getting the right coffee machine in the first place, is the right advice, but that really depends on a persons budget. You can't buy champagne on a beer budget when it comes to buying consistently performing espresso gear...

    Capisce ?

    Last edited by Skyhook; 09-05-2009 at 09:17 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    You can't buy champagne on a beer budget when it comes to buying consistently performing espresso gear...
    True dat. True dat.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Hmmm o.k, so you get info from coffegeek like Bob..
    I get drag into this one...

    Even though it sounds negative to me but I'm OK..

    I don't know much about Aussie products and have so far been significantly disappointed from its produces, ie fruit juices, steak, milk, etc. that's available here in Hong Kong. It could be better over there but, unlike its peers from NorthAm, it does not show any potential to me.

    I found NorthAm products more to my liking. Professional is good but I look for the thing I like and the information I get serve me well. This is my preference and hope one takes that in mind on any of my discussion.

    Let me stress again, I do respect the coffee culture of Aussie some said it's the best place to have espresso outside Italy..

    I find the price range per Skyhook's recommendation is quite far away from Nespresso. In addition to the espresso, you need to add grinder in too. So, we end up closer to doubling the budget. True, one can't buy champagne on a beer budget but this is a difficult time that makes one thing about enjoying things at home for a reduced budget. Maybe he likes it, maybe not.. So, the $ is important, IMHO.

    Just an aside, one could buy champagne at a very good beer budget too... You check PNS wine shelf out and see a champagne (more like sparkling wine) for HK$50+...
    Last edited by boblam07; 09-05-2009 at 10:44 PM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by boblam07:
    I get drag into this one...

    Even though it sounds negative to me but I'm OK..


    I don't know much about Aussie products and have so far been significantly disappointed from its produces, ie fruit juices, steak, milk, etc. that's available here in Hong Kong. It could be better over there but, unlike its peers from NorthAm, it does not show any potential to me.

    Have to agree with you there Bob, Aussie produce in Hong Kong is about as crap as it gets, I can't disagree. Not sure why that is though, as food in general tastes very different in HK at the best of time, nothing here tastes like it does back in Aus, or in the EU for that matter.


    I found NorthAm products more to my liking. Professional is good but I look for the thing I like and the information I get serve me well. This is my preference and hope one takes that in mind on any of my discussion.

    Yep you're entitled to your preference, and if I was American, it might mean something to me.

    Let me stress again, I do respect the coffee culture of Aussie some said it's the best place to have espresso outside Italy..

    I don't know how you can respect something that you have never tried in Australia, just because you heard that it's good, then it must be true..? I don't support that theory, it's like saying a Porsche is good, but you have never owned or driven one. How do you know that ?


    I find the price range per Skyhook's recommendation is quite far away from Nespresso. In addition to the espresso, you need to add grinder in too. So, we end up closer to doubling the budget. True, one can't buy champagne on a beer budget but this is a difficult time that makes one thing about enjoying things at home for a reduced budget. Maybe he likes it, maybe not.. So, the $ is important, IMHO.

    Nothing wrong with my price range, unless you say its wrong. I didn't get my grinder straight away when I purchased my Espresso machine, I waited awhile, and then got it. I'd say more people do that, than those who don't. Considering most expats don't drive ( no car expenses ), the argument that expats ( this forum is aimed at expats ) can't afford to buy a decent espresso machine, which by my calculations if we were buying 2 cups ( husband and wife ) of coffee at an independent cafe at $60 per day, that works out to over $21,900 hkd per year ! We save a considerable sum, and our machine actually pays itself off in the first 12 months of ownership.

    Just an aside, one could buy champagne at a very good beer budget too... You check PNS wine shelf out and see a champagne (more like sparkling wine) for HK$50+...

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but no you can't. Champagne, especially vintage Champagnes, contain lees,ie they get better with age, not carbonated like sparkling wines are. Pretty obvious you have never tried vintage Champagne before, to even make any experienced reference to it, because if you had, you would know that there is a massive difference in how a vintage Champagne looks, feels, tastes, compared to the mass produced carbonated "fizzy" sparkling wine variety.
    Photo below of what real Champagne looks like, from my own stock, that you won't be finding in the local supermarkets of Hong Kong lmfao. My family in France, work in the wine industry Bob, but that's o.k, maybe you can learn more, when somebody webmasters winegeek.com.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 10-05-2009 at 12:03 PM.

  10. #30

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    Nice try, skyhook.

    Burst my bubble... Another negative here... hahaha.

    winegeek.com I think it would be beneficial if one could start... haha

    Reminding me of an Aussie's colleague of mine who told me a long while back that Aussie is a very straightforward people...

    No, I will not argue with you on champagne, vintage or no vintage, or anything related to alcohol. I did try some and know very little vs. what you family knows and it just wasn't my cup of tea and it doesn't benefit me that much as I don't care about such drink.

    Regarding the Aussie, I've never been there myself but, IIRC, some statistics show a very telling story on how popular espresso is in Aussie, how Starbucks can't make it there, which is similar to Italy, the Living Coffee program that you mentioned and my experience at Coco Espresso as they claimed they are from or have significant experience via Australia.

    In my life, I will probably not be able to try all things before I could conclude it's good. Not to say that the first hand experience is not good but sometimes, it's not a must and quite often it can't be done. I won't argue with you on Porsche and don't mind if you can spare me one.

    Like all those food critics, if you happen to agree with the guy, it implies his taste and yours are quite close. Coupling with other opinion sources which speaks in a similar fashion, one could imply something out of it. Yes, it could turn out to be pure BS but you have to use whatever you have in front of you for something at some time.

    BTW, I skimmed through your Crema magazine link. I found nothing new vs. a not so professional website like coffeegeek.com. In fact, there are less info on Crema than a post on coffeegeek, ie pressurized portafilter on Breville which is a no-no for me but the machine is professional recommended... Who am I to know better than the professional who recommend this machine?

    But hey, the professional said it's good so it's gotta be good, right. Not really, IMHO. I think both has a place on one's decision. To me, both fit some aspect of a person who are looking for a new espresso gear. The professional may speak professionally or is restraint from saying something or don't care about something. You see that they use a slightly coarser grind than "commercial" setting. They should have further reported that otherwise, the pressurized machine like Breville may choke... No, they didn't tell but probably assume that all readers are professional enough to know that or amateur shouldn't care about it.\

    I don't know that Crema Magazine that well to say so but I learn that you shouldn't trust coffeegeek.com for sure. However, it raised an issue, which could be important to someone than others. In that sense, coffeegeek is very beneficial than just saying good mid price machines. People has different preferences and that's why we need all these guys...

    Last edited by boblam07; 10-05-2009 at 04:41 PM.