[Poll] Stay or Leave Hong Kong

[civil_servant]

Original Post Deleted

The one-way permit system contains population growth. Look at Shenzhen. From fishing village to giant Metropolis. Guangzhou has also had tremendous growth. Urbanization has been tremendous all across China and has placed big pressure on services and infrastructure. It's not unique to Hong Kong.

[Jaz Paul]

I see it too. One clown was responsible for organising a well moderated and presumably a high quality discussion within a peer audience. Another clown was ranting about taxi fares.

Quite frankly, it is scary how similar the two situations are.



I would have found some other way to describe Mallet.

sorry Shri, but a very feeble attempt at expressing sarcasm. There are many modern aspects to bigotry, but that's fine we all have had our share in some ways.

As far as I can recall, the guy was possibly overwhelmed with culture shock and found this forum to vent. No matter how much research you do beforehand, it is the curiosity of human nature that prevails. In fact, many of us probably have been here long enough to have forgotten how they genuinely felt about the changes in the past, or even now, perhaps they've become numb.

Personally, I do not put anyone on a pedestal just because they are a 'high- flying' journalist (nothing more as he just organised the talk and himself claimed he had nothing else to do with it) and blatantly disregard another person's views.

To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed with some of the comments made about Aussies in general (I'm not an Aussie) degrading someone by calling them names like bogans etc is completely uncalled for, at least on this forum where participants supposedly exhibit some degree of intellect. Further, in my opinion, a heavy handed approach was adopted when a couple of his threads were closed where he had made some legitimate points. This is the analogy, though different scale in your books not mine, I was referring about when a journalist upholding freedom of speech was rejected visa and the guy expressing his views here was given a cold shoulder.

[Bernadette J W]

I do not understand why people who are from overseas stay in a place that they do not like. The sooner these people leave, the fewer people there will be.

[hullexile]

I do not understand why people who are from overseas stay in a place that they do not like. The sooner these people leave, the fewer people there will be.

Money

[Edwardstorm]

We are leaving next year. HK is full of bad vibes. There is too much hatred for mainlanders, foreign helpers, etc, when the Hongkers themselves are worse in my eyes. At least in the mainland I see people giving up their seats on buses and the metro.

Exactly my observation having lived in China and now in Hong Kong. (and leaving next year too)

[Bernadette J W]

All this talk of bad vibes is quite interesting but I do not think some people on this forum should be so negative about Hong Kong or its people. If you hate Hong Kong and you have the financial means, you can just leave. It might be better for you.

Someone mentioned people often stay here for money. Well if they are the ones moaning, it just reinforces the adage that money does not buy happiness!!

There are good and bad people everywhere.

I have seen Hong Kong people giving up their seats on the MTR and traffic trying to let ambulances and fire engines get through in congested streets. I have also witnessed injustice and stepped up to say so.

However, I have never witnessed young Hong Kong men attacking people for no reason but I certainly have seen British young men attacking people for no reason in Britain.

There are advantages and disadvantages to most things and places. I feel privileged to live in Hong Kong and I can go home to England whenever I want.

[EVC_YL]

Further, in my opinion, a heavy handed approach was adopted when a couple of his threads were closed where he had made some legitimate points.

Like the point about how Australia has “regulated scaffolding” and Hong Kong has “Bamboo scaffolding” which are “unsafe and outdated” and, therefore, “health and safety standards here are unbelievable.” For example, there’s a “the complete lack of hard hat, steel cap boots, gloves etc…” on the worksite.

A 21 year old proud Australian comes to a city with the most high-rise buildings in the world and complains about the lack of regulation on scaffolding and construction, in general.

Yes, he should not be called a “bogan”, because, he claims to be an Aussie, but we do not know for sure.

[Tadashi]

maybe add an option of "left HK but want to go back"

[Michael Tsang]

Money

I am born in Hong Kong, is a Hong Kong citizen and have never emigrated. However, I don't like Hong Kong and want to leave by 2021.

Hong Kong does not offer what I want. As Hong Kong is just a city, I also look inside mainland China as well, but a country is even worse than a city.

My main sport is trail orienteering and I'm currently in the top 100 of the world ranking list, however, there are too few training opportunities here. For each format there are only about 2 races per year, but if you want to maintain a high standard, you should be doing training races every month. Nearly all of the high-level races are in Europe, but going to Europe from Hong Kong is very costly which I can only do it at most 2 or 3 times a year. However, Hong Kong will be holding the world championship in 2020. If we talk about orienteering in general, than it is OK as it is now very popular in Guangdong.

The other main sport I do is swimming. I like to do open water swimming, but the problem is, although Hong Kong has a magnificent coastline, the open water community is very small. It is very easy to find long-distance mass participation open water swimming races in the UK or the US, but in Hong Kong, nope.

There are 3 marathon swimming races in Hong Kong every year. The HKASA 10 km Open Water Championship follows FINA rules which only cater for elites (equivalent to sub-2:30 marathon), the other 2 are Clean Half and Cold Half, which are 15 km in length, probably the longest swimming races in Asia. However, the participation count is so few. The organiser limits the event to 30 solos, however, there are fewer than 10 (!) solos participating in Cold Half every year.

The problem is that, all of the mass participation swimming races in Hong Kong are so short! A lot of races which attract hundreds of swimmers are only 600 m (less than a km!). The iconic cross harbour race is 1 km, but the competition classes require a decent level to qualify. Some clubs are holding races of around 3 km, but not more for mass participation. Their 5 km races are "for advanced swimmers only", which the organiser only accepts entry from people they already know.

I am looking in mainland China as well, but despite the population, there are basically no mass participation long distance swimming races along the coast! Nearly all races are of elite level and by invitation only, e.g. the Xiamen - Kinmen race. I would like to do marathon swimming eventually but there are no races for me to bridge the gap between 3 km and cold half 15 km! Think of the situation where you don't have 10 km or half marathon to run after finishing 5 km, but the city is holding a marathon every year! Is it insane?!

People are promoting open water swimming races in the Philippines, including 5 km, 7 km, 8 km, 10 km, 15 km etc. but the problem is the Philippines is so damn hot!!!!!!!!! Your preference may vary, but I don't want to swim in 29°C water. It's too hot for me.

This introduce to the next reason why I want to leave Hong Kong - the climate. Hong Kong is so damn hot in summer and never cold in winter. I have to use A/C from April to November every year - but in 2018 I had to keep the A/C on even after winter solstice! I'm very afraid of hot and like to set the indoor A/C to below 20°C, while wearing a thin T-short and shorts. In the summer I get dizzy very easily outside, walking uphill from the 904 bus stop on the tramway to HKU can make me headache. I have to stop all my physical exercise unless it is in an air-conditioned place - for swimming I have to go to an indoor pool in summer where the A/C is strong enough.

I am waiting desperately for the summer to go away, such that I can resume my swim training. The sea temperature goes down to 24°C (anything warmer is too hot for me) only in October, which humorously is when the "swimming season" officially ends, 21°C in early December which I am the most comfortable in, and 18°C not until January, if the preceding weather is cold enough. (It is still 19°C at the time of writing this). Basically this is "summer swimming" in winter. It is not possible to do "winter swimming" in Hong Kong because there is no ice and snow. In the summer, I even don't want to go to the beach despite I LOVE swimming, because it is SO HOT! Better stay in an A/C room.

This climate also means I can never do any winter sports in Hong Kong, including ski orienteering, ice swimming and ice sailing (corresponding to the main 3 summer sports I do in Hong Kong - foot orienteering, swimming and sailing).

There, I get bored very easily as I don't like the kind of "entertainment" and "nightlife" in Hong Kong. I have no nightlife because I get up early for swim training, especially in winter where the university pool is closed in the evening.

Now, another aspect why I don't like Hong Kong and want to leave is my career. I am a software developer, by the very nature like innovation. I also supports open data as well and would like to build solutions using 100% open data. However, everyone knows how useless Hong Kong government is in terms of supporting innovation - a lot of things, like e-bikes, are banned, and even cycling, which is an environmental friendly way of travelling, is discouraged in urban areas (Hong Kong and Kowloon). Most taxis stay cash only in Hong Kong while taxis in other places are accepting various electronic payment methods, therefore every time if I plan to take a taxi I have to find an ATM to withdraw cash, which may not be available in rural areas. And a lot of "public utility" companies refuse to do open data as well, where it is now the norm of some European countries and Taiwan cities. In terms of innovation, Taiwan is a huge step ahead of Hong Kong.

Also, the civil rights, freedom and rule of law in Hong Kong is deteriorating as well in recent year, and may be totally gone when we hit the 2047 deadline.

Although I can earn money in Hong Kong, money can't bring me happiness and can't bring me my desired lifestyle. Therefore I want to find a European country to emigrate to, with proper winter, where I can do orienteering every week or even after work in summer, and swim in ice water in the winter, and get support for my innovative entrepreneurial ideas using 100% open data. I am still deciding where to go, but language will be a great barrier, no matter Sweden, Finland, Russia, Estonia or Lithuania. (U.K. and Ireland are the only countries in Europe without any language barrier - English is officially used there)

[civil_servant]

I am born in Hong Kong, is a Hong Kong citizen and have never emigrated. However, I don't like Hong Kong and want to leave by 2021.

Hong Kong does not offer what I want. As Hong Kong is just a city, I also look inside mainland China as well, but a country is even worse than a city.

My main sport is trail orienteering and I'm currently in the top 100 of the world ranking list, however, there are too few training opportunities here. For each format there are only about 2 races per year, but if you want to maintain a high standard, you should be doing training races every month. Nearly all of the high-level races are in Europe, but going to Europe from Hong Kong is very costly which I can only do it at most 2 or 3 times a year. However, Hong Kong will be holding the world championship in 2020. If we talk about orienteering in general, than it is OK as it is now very popular in Guangdong.

The other main sport I do is swimming. I like to do open water swimming, but the problem is, although Hong Kong has a magnificent coastline, the open water community is very small. It is very easy to find long-distance mass participation open water swimming races in the UK or the US, but in Hong Kong, nope.

There are 3 marathon swimming races in Hong Kong every year. The HKASA 10 km Open Water Championship follows FINA rules which only cater for elites (equivalent to sub-2:30 marathon), the other 2 are Clean Half and Cold Half, which are 15 km in length, probably the longest swimming races in Asia. However, the participation count is so few. The organiser limits the event to 30 solos, however, there are fewer than 10 (!) solos participating in Cold Half every year.

The problem is that, all of the mass participation swimming races in Hong Kong are so short! A lot of races which attract hundreds of swimmers are only 600 m (less than a km!). The iconic cross harbour race is 1 km, but the competition classes require a decent level to qualify. Some clubs are holding races of around 3 km, but not more for mass participation. Their 5 km races are "for advanced swimmers only", which the organiser only accepts entry from people they already know.

I am looking in mainland China as well, but despite the population, there are basically no mass participation long distance swimming races along the coast! Nearly all races are of elite level and by invitation only, e.g. the Xiamen - Kinmen race. I would like to do marathon swimming eventually but there are no races for me to bridge the gap between 3 km and cold half 15 km! Think of the situation where you don't have 10 km or half marathon to run after finishing 5 km, but the city is holding a marathon every year! Is it insane?!

People are promoting open water swimming races in the Philippines, including 5 km, 7 km, 8 km, 10 km, 15 km etc. but the problem is the Philippines is so damn hot!!!!!!!!! Your preference may vary, but I don't want to swim in 29°C water. It's too hot for me.

This introduce to the next reason why I want to leave Hong Kong - the climate. Hong Kong is so damn hot in summer and never cold in winter. I have to use A/C from April to November every year - but in 2018 I had to keep the A/C on even after winter solstice! I'm very afraid of hot and like to set the indoor A/C to below 20°C, while wearing a thin T-short and shorts. In the summer I get dizzy very easily outside, walking uphill from the 904 bus stop on the tramway to HKU can make me headache. I have to stop all my physical exercise unless it is in an air-conditioned place - for swimming I have to go to an indoor pool in summer where the A/C is strong enough.

I am waiting desperately for the summer to go away, such that I can resume my swim training. The sea temperature goes down to 24°C (anything warmer is too hot for me) only in October, which humorously is when the "swimming season" officially ends, 21°C in early December which I am the most comfortable in, and 18°C not until January, if the preceding weather is cold enough. (It is still 19°C at the time of writing this). Basically this is "summer swimming" in winter. It is not possible to do "winter swimming" in Hong Kong because there is no ice and snow. In the summer, I even don't want to go to the beach despite I LOVE swimming, because it is SO HOT! Better stay in an A/C room.

This climate also means I can never do any winter sports in Hong Kong, including ski orienteering, ice swimming and ice sailing (corresponding to the main 3 summer sports I do in Hong Kong - foot orienteering, swimming and sailing).

There, I get bored very easily as I don't like the kind of "entertainment" and "nightlife" in Hong Kong. I have no nightlife because I get up early for swim training, especially in winter where the university pool is closed in the evening.

Now, another aspect why I don't like Hong Kong and want to leave is my career. I am a software developer, by the very nature like innovation. I also supports open data as well and would like to build solutions using 100% open data. However, everyone knows how useless Hong Kong government is in terms of supporting innovation - a lot of things, like e-bikes, are banned, and even cycling, which is an environmental friendly way of travelling, is discouraged in urban areas (Hong Kong and Kowloon). Most taxis stay cash only in Hong Kong while taxis in other places are accepting various electronic payment methods, therefore every time if I plan to take a taxi I have to find an ATM to withdraw cash, which may not be available in rural areas. And a lot of "public utility" companies refuse to do open data as well, where it is now the norm of some European countries and Taiwan cities. In terms of innovation, Taiwan is a huge step ahead of Hong Kong.

Also, the civil rights, freedom and rule of law in Hong Kong is deteriorating as well in recent year, and may be totally gone when we hit the 2047 deadline.

Although I can earn money in Hong Kong, money can't bring me happiness and can't bring me my desired lifestyle. Therefore I want to find a European country to emigrate to, with proper winter, where I can do orienteering every week or even after work in summer, and swim in ice water in the winter, and get support for my innovative entrepreneurial ideas using 100% open data. I am still deciding where to go, but language will be a great barrier, no matter Sweden, Finland, Russia, Estonia or Lithuania. (U.K. and Ireland are the only countries in Europe without any language barrier - English is officially used there)

Move to Ottawa, Canada. There's a lot of IT industry there that pays good salaries and they constantly have races, triathlons, etc. There's also a massive provincial park starting almost at the centre of the city which is hilly terrain and excellent for trail orienteering. The weather is cold, but it does have hot summers. People speak English to boot. With good IT qualifications you should have no problems immigrating. Property is also cheap. For HKD 2.4 million you can have a house right next to the provincial park with 1 acre of land.