Watching my HK colleagues become expats in Taiwan

[Coolboy]

Yes for sure, expats (a loaded word these days) can be 'guilty' of both, but my point is that people from less diverse societies are more likely to complain about those things.

HK's size (The goldfish bowl we often refer to it as) also contributes to that in a way that being from Europe most certainly would not.

But at the same, time there's a huge difference between. 'Taiwan is not as good as HK because it doesn't serve milk tea' and 'ah I'll miss milk tea living in Taiwan'.

It bug's the hell out of me when people label balanced observations as 'complaining' (not that I'm saying that you're doing that specifically)

You'll be suprised to know what some particular American expats say about HK (not referring to anyone here on geoexpat, just Americans I know personally in HK), and America is supposedly a diverse society...

[Sage]

You'll be suprised to know what some particular American expats say about HK (not referring to anyone here on geoexpat, just Americans I know personally in HK), and America is supposedly a diverse society...

I don't think I will, I would however be 'interested' to know...

I'm talking generally about cultures, not specifically about individuals.

But importantly, there's a very good reason why I referenced Europe and not the USA when talking about large places being more accepting of differences; and that's because insularity is another big driver, in fact the bigger driver in reality.....

I may appear to be contradicting myself to some degree, but I do believe there are competing drivers behind peoples reduced ability to adapt to change.

In the US's case, the East and West coasts are pretty international (at least Cali, PNW and NY) but middle America, as we all know, is pretty insular and that in turn sets a certain tone for the whole country....

But back to what some A.Expats say... Do tell!

[AsianXpat0]

I think the commonly appreciated social contracts that most Westerners adhere to (ie., holding the door open for strangers, not stopping in the middle of the sidewalk without first checking your surroundings) just don't hold true in HK and most of Asia (probably with the exception of Japan and Korea but I'm biased here).

I like to think that Larry David could fill multiple seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm critiquing the lack of social contracts / awareness in Hong Kong. Probably a whole season on lift etiquette alone.

Before I relocated to Hong Kong, I had zero expectations on the behaviour of the locals, as my impression from shorter visits was that they would generally be quite rude. Having lived here a while and having had zero expectations, I do find a lack of social awareness to sometimes be true, and certain segments of the population to be actively aggressive as to their welfare being paramount over all others (my local ex-colleague says these are immigrants, my own observation being limited to these tending to be middle-aged ladies), but on the other hand I have regularly observed unexpected courtesy (from zero baseline) in my residential neighbourhood and elsewhere, as well as caring behaviours, including locals pointing out when I dropped my wallet on the street, or two separate instances when I was arriving unbeknownst at protest scenes for strangers to express concern for my safety.

Might your own observations be coloured both by your higher expectations of civilised life, as well as living in a neighbourhood with certain ideological (“me first”) sympathies? Plus my ex-colleague taught me what the words for “watch out” etcetra were when I first arrived. If you don’t know the local language, warnings, however gruffly expressed, are going to be missed. (I didn’t know the words for tear gas, but roughly worked it out as I was exiting the MTR station.)

Tbh I have very little context as to what the antifa movement stands for. I get the sense that it is anti racism, against religious prosecution and Anti xenophobia which if in practice seem like good things.

It can seem pretty ironic that you were opposed to the “violent” local protests, while supporting a confrontational approach that can seem to advocate preemptive violence against those with a different ideology, in a system that does incorporate voting. I suppose as a minority it’s easier to support anti-racism, which is a good thing, but it doesn’t seem consistent with calling out the worst aspects of some of the radical frontliners (look up “Black Bloc” to see how synonymous it can be) representing a repressed majority denied political rights or even basic justice.

[Coolboy]

I don't think I will, I would however be 'interested' to know...

I'm talking generally about cultures, not specifically about individuals.

But importantly, there's a very good reason why I referenced Europe and not the USA when talking about large places being more accepting of differences; and that's because insularity is another big driver, in fact the bigger driver in reality.....

I may appear to be contradicting myself to some degree, but I do believe there are competing drivers behind peoples reduced ability to adapt to change.

In the US's case, the East and West coasts are pretty international (at least Cali, PNW and NY) but middle America, as we all know, is pretty insular and that in turn sets a certain tone for the whole country....

But back to what some A.Expats say... Do tell!

Hong Kong and Chinese from Guangdong and Fujian provinces have a long history of migration to Southeast Asia and the West. So they would actually be more adept at juggling clashing cultures than an American from the South would. In fact, Chinese migrants were targets of discriminatory laws in many countries. So in that sense Hkers would likely be more capable of adjusting to different environments. Hong Kong and Mainland immigrants are known for being resourceful and making changes on the fly to survive in their new adopted home. Once they get over their initial complaining they would get down to trying to elk out a living where ever they are.

[Cornmeal]

Show them this comic:

Taiwan vs. Hong Kong: In Comics

[Sage]

Hong Kong and Chinese from Guangdong and Fujian provinces have a long history of migration to Southeast Asia and the West. So they would actually be more adept at juggling clashing cultures than an American from the South would. In fact, Chinese migrants were targets of discriminatory laws in many countries. So in that sense Hkers would likely be more capable of adjusting to different environments. Hong Kong and Mainland immigrants are known for being resourceful and making changes on the fly to survive in their new adopted home. Once they get over their initial complaining they would get down to trying to elk out a living where ever they are.

Indeed, but I wonder how long 'the effect' lasts? The majority of HK's population immigrated here in the last 60 years.

And the US is itself a nation of immigrants with a 'pioneer spirit'......supposedly.

[hullexile]

If you want to hear complaining expats, come and listen to some Australians in the Philippines. I have never heard anything like it. Everything is wrong here (which is why they chose to live here not in perfect Australia), all Filipinos are stupid (presumably including their wives and children). Honestly 99% of what some of them say is a complaint. People they hate: Abos, Muslims, Abos, non white fake Australians, Brits, non Brits, Abos,....

[MABinPengChau]

Honestly, my coworkers are adjusting quite well, most are good with Mandarin, only my partner is rather rubbish at it...

But still fascinating, to me, watching the adjustment, and also feel some comradery as they are now in the same position as I am relative to being immigrants/expats in Taiwan.

[Paxbritannia]

If you want to hear complaining expats, come and listen to some Australians in the Philippines. I have never heard anything like it. Everything is wrong here (which is why they chose to live here not in perfect Australia), all Filipinos are stupid (presumably including their wives and children). Honestly 99% of what some of them say is a complaint. People they hate: Abos, Muslims, Abos, non white fake Australians, Brits, non Brits, Abos,....

Sounds appalling. I wonder if that's what one of the other posters had in mind when they referred to the attitudes of Americans in HK...

[Skyhook]

Sounds appalling. I wonder if that's what one of the other posters had in mind when they referred to the attitudes of Americans in HK...

Ahh, the sound of the lid being peeled back of another GEOEXPAT tin of worms. :-)