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Should we stay or go?

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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    The suffering starts when you're served the bill.

    And then you can't afford anything else for the rest of the day and you end up either at Coop or Migros for your Leberkäsbrötchen like @Elegiaque.
    Woe is me! Forced to shop at Migros! (Which is, in my experience, the generally best supermarket...I have some Migros stories.)

    Quote Originally Posted by seirin:
    Yep - personally, I've found it really detracts from my quality of life (don't want to leave the flat because it's too damn hot) so it's akin to really only "living" for three quarters of the year.

    I'm sure other people love it like this but it's just not my cup of tea.
    Yes, for my partner this is a pretty big thing. I personally enjoy the sunshine hours we get here, but that's exactly right -- for a few months you get locked in and you feel trapped and unable to do anything. I always feel a bit of panic in May when we have to close up windows and turn on othe A/C. Then, if we get a polluted winter, it gets pretty frustrating. We've since discovered the beaches, but those can be hit-or-miss (or just CLOSED). We'd prefer a climate with a bit more to the seasons.

    What I don't know is after being in HK for so long, if I'll find a European winter worse than a HK summer. I guess I just have to try. The good thing about being close to the mountains is apparently in the winter, you can go up to a higher altitude above the clouds and at least get some sunshine. From my previous experience, it's those transitional months that are pretty painful and grey -- November, December, March.

    IF the weather in HK were like this past winter or even this week just a bit more, I think I'd be inclined to stay and call HK home home.

  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by seirin:
    Yep - personally, I've found it really detracts from my quality of life (don't want to leave the flat because it's too damn hot) so it's akin to really only "living" for three quarters of the year.

    I'm sure other people love it like this but it's just not my cup of tea.
    Actually there are some great outdoor activities in the summer, mostly involved with water sports. Dipping into the sea to cool off is a popular weekend past time for locals.

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kowloon72:
    It's not a strange comment. It's a fairly common concept/phenomenon among people who end up staying in Asia long-term, that they find life back in 'the West' boring, for one reason or another. One man's meat is another's poison. I moved back to a major European city for three years after two years in Asia (not HK). My wife was offered a great relocation package, and I found well paying work shortly after arriving. Wasn't terrible, but I couldn't readjust. Afterwards, we spent some time travelling and settled in HK. Not sure how long I'll be here but when it's time to move it will be another city in the region and not back to Europe (or the US/OZ).

    People appreciate different things in life, sometimes unexpectedly so. If you'd told me in my early-20s I'd rather live in Kuala Lumpur than Berlin I would have laughed myself silly. Probably didn't even know where KL was!
    It is. I would never say I found SE Asia boring because I know its a big place with a wide variety of culture, landscape, diversity, towns, city, countryside. You can't tar a massive area of the world with the same brush. It just shows an ignorance of the area, assuming it's all the same. Possibly you could say that Hong Kong is boring or Birmingham is boring. Even then it's not actually the case.

    What you are describing is not boredom it's just not being able to identify with a place.
    Last edited by Pauljoecoe; 08-10-2020 at 04:03 PM.
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  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauljoecoe:
    It is. I would never say I found SE Asia boring because I know its a big place with a wide variety of culture, landscape, diversity, towns, city, countryside. You can't tar a massive area of the world with the same brush. It just shows an ignorance of the area, assuming it's all the same. Possibly you could say that Hong Kong is boring or Birmingham is boring. Even then it's not actually the case.
    Sure, I understand there is great cultural and landscape variety to Europe, as there are in many large geographical places. However, one time back in Greece, I was struck at how "European" it was. It sure was a lot more similar to Germany than my HK home was. This impression really stuck with me. (Had I visited Greece during my time in Germany I'd think it were quite different!) So, having lived on different continents, I can see parallels in ways I maybe wouldn't have in the past. I don't think it's a bad thing.

    I do think even if you get on a train or a plane and go to a different country there will overall be some sameness. Toilets will cost instead of being free and at every block. There won't be any iced lemon tea... you'll likely always be able to get around on (costly) public transport.
    HK_Katherine likes this.

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiaque:
    Sure, I understand there is great cultural and landscape variety to Europe, as there are in many large geographical places. However, one time back in Greece, I was struck at how "European" it was. It sure was a lot more similar to Germany than my HK home was. This impression really stuck with me. (Had I visited Greece during my time in Germany I'd think it were quite different!) So, having lived on different continents, I can see parallels in ways I maybe wouldn't have in the past. I don't think it's a bad thing.

    I do think even if you get on a train or a plane and go to a different country there will overall be some sameness. Toilets will cost instead of being free and at every block. There won't be any iced lemon tea... you'll likely always be able to get around on (costly) public transport.
    Well yes - that's just European Culture just as there are many aspects of Asia life that are very similar. Also as a 'native European' I will be more attuned to differences that a non European might not.To the same extent I might consider all Asian countries to feel very similar in those aspects whereas a native Asian would find countries/regions quite different. That's very different to finding a whole region of the world 'boring'.

    Interestingly I find Greece completely different to the UK in so many ways. It is a very 'foreign' country to me! However, I agree I would feel more comfortable/familiar with Greece than Vietnam or China.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by seirin:
    Yep - personally, I've found it really detracts from my quality of life (don't want to leave the flat because it's too damn hot) so it's akin to really only "living" for three quarters of the year.

    I'm sure other people love it like this but it's just not my cup of tea.
    I fit perfectly into this category. My ideal temperature is 33-37 degrees in dry heat and 31-34 degrees with humidity. Now you know why I like living here. I used to live in Bangkok, the world's hottest city, and absolutely loved it for the weather, but it was too hot for the wife so we settled on Hong Kong.
    TaD_LaLa likes this.

  7. #77

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    I wonder why you give so little credit to Switzerland. It's true, people in the north are boring, and not very friendly. But Switzerland is actually very diverse, if you don't like the north, go to the west. Geneva is a rather dynamic city. It's also in the middle of everywhere, and as long as you don't mind driving for a few hours you can get to everywhere easily. Or you can work in Switzerland and live in neighbouring France, Italy, or Germany, getting the high Swiss salaries and the low Euro prices.

    What does HK have that Switzerland doesn't have? Let's see. HK has beaches, Switzerland has lidos (you lie on the grass and bathe in the lake. In HK you can go from the beach to the city to the mountains in 1/2 hour. So you can in Switzerland.

    What does Switzerland have that HK doesn't have? A good education system, clean air, blue skies, high mountains, a countryside with farmers, culture (look at the HK museums, a total joke, and compare them to Swiss museums, a charm), 3 languages, good universities, larger cheaper flats (outside city centers). And this is just ignoring all the recent things that happened in HK: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, teachers who are not fired for asking "What wiil Switzerland become if there is no longer freedom of speech", people who don't go to prison forever without trial for posting something on twitter, etc.

    I could go on for hours.

    This is Locarno, beach, city, mountains (with snow if you are lucky) within 30 min.

    TheBrit, mused, Sage and 4 others like this.

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauljoecoe:
    It is. I would never say I found SE Asia boring because I know its a big place with a wide variety of culture, landscape, diversity, towns, city, countryside. You can't tar a massive area of the world with the same brush. It just shows an ignorance of the area, assuming it's all the same. Possibly you could say that Hong Kong is boring or Birmingham is boring. Even then it's not actually the case.

    What you are describing is not boredom it's just not being able to identify with a place.
    You seem to be confused. We're discussing matters of opinion - whether people used the correct modal is just semantics. You don't get to overrule anyone. Nor do you get to invalidate my or anyone else's experiences.

    I moved back to a European/Western country having lived in Asia. I found it boring. Does that mean it is objectively boring? Of course not, there is no such thing. I said I found it boring. I stated twice that one man's meat is another's poison. I have lived in other western countries, too. And have travelled/vacationed in dozens of others. Just like anyone else, I was able to make a fair assumption that I would feel likewise in any of those places. Just like someone who has lived in a few Asian countries and travelled in a dozen more would be able to discern whether or not they found it to their tastes in terms of lifestyle.
    alexdown, Elegiaque, jgl and 2 others like this.

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by john_1122:
    I wonder why you give so little credit to Switzerland. It's true, people in the north are boring, and not very friendly. But Switzerland is actually very diverse, if you don't like the north, go to the west. Geneva is a rather dynamic city. It's also in the middle of everywhere, and as long as you don't mind driving for a few hours you can get to everywhere easily. Or you can work in Switzerland and live in neighbouring France, Italy, or Germany, getting the high Swiss salaries and the low Euro prices.

    What does HK have that Switzerland doesn't have? Let's see. HK has beaches, Switzerland has lidos (you lie on the grass and bathe in the lake. In HK you can go from the beach to the city to the mountains in 1/2 hour. So you can in Switzerland.

    What does Switzerland have that HK doesn't have? A good education system, clean air, blue skies, high mountains, a countryside with farmers, culture (look at the HK museums, a total joke, and compare them to Swiss museums, a charm), 3 languages, good universities, larger cheaper flats (outside city centers). And this is just ignoring all the recent things that happened in HK: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, teachers who are not fired for asking "What wiil Switzerland become if there is no longer freedom of speech", people who don't go to prison forever without trial for posting something on twitter, etc.

    I could go on for hours.

    This is Locarno, beach, city, mountains (with snow if you are lucky) within 30 min.
    Look at the HK museums? I don't need to, because I can go to Longji rice terraces or a Dong village and see living cultural heritage. I can go to temples. I can learn Chinese calligraphy, which is endlessly interesting.

    Cheaper, larger flats outside the city centre? Where do you think a foreigner is going to live and earn a living in Switzerland if not the city centres. There are NOT cheaper flats, AND getting flats is highly competitive. Forget buying, as there is almost nothing for sale. It may arguably be a worse place than HK, especially since in HK I've found a niche place. Granted, the quality of apartments will be higher.

    I think you haven't quite understood something from my previous posts, and Kowloon72 is pointing this out: I have already experienced the excitement of exploring Europe and its culture. I have a master's degree in a European cultural topic for heaven's sake! I have learned a language there already. I've been to countless operas and museums -- I used to find that very interesting to see all the different opera houses, museums, and places where famous composers were born/died. I'm not arguing that Europe objectively is boring, I'm saying from personal experiences and at this point in my life it may seem dull in comparison to the experiences I've already had and the experiences available in Asia that I still have yet to explore. I find learning language and exploring new cultures interesting, and at this stage, Europe can't really offer that to me anymore (unless I dig deeper).

    It kind of sucks getting old if you like new experiences, hmm?

    The landscape, though, I don't think will ever be boring to me, especially after being limited to HK for one year now. (But you know, Asia does have a the Himalayas! And there is still so much of China we want to see...)

    But I think I really want better quality food for our daily life, and you're right, clean air, too. I'm facing some chronic health issues, and I think the overall care I can get there will be better. Have to consider all factors...

    The thought of saying good bye to Asia for now, though, isn't easy.
    Last edited by Elegiaque; 09-10-2020 at 11:00 AM.

  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kowloon72:
    You seem to be confused. We're discussing matters of opinion - whether people used the correct modal is just semantics. You don't get to overrule anyone. Nor do you get to invalidate my or anyone else's experiences.

    I moved back to a European/Western country having lived in Asia. I found it boring. Does that mean it is objectively boring? Of course not, there is no such thing. I said I found it boring. I stated twice that one man's meat is another's poison. I have lived in other western countries, too. And have travelled/vacationed in dozens of others. Just like anyone else, I was able to make a fair assumption that I would feel likewise in any of those places. Just like someone who has lived in a few Asian countries and travelled in a dozen more would be able to discern whether or not they found it to their tastes in terms of lifestyle.
    Can I ask what elements you found boring, or give a few lifestyle examples that are pertinent to you and what the differences were ?
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