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Should we stay or go?

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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiaque:
    Look at the HK museums? I don't need to, because I can go to Longji rice terraces or a Dong village and see living cultural heritage. I can go to temples. I can learn Chinese calligraphy, which is endlessly interesting.
    You have quite some time, and if you need to travel 10 hours to go somewhere interesting, it says a lot about HK! Anyway, think of all the places you can visit if you are willing to travel 10 hours from Switzerland.

    Cheaper, larger flats outside the city centre? Where do you think a foreigner is going to live and earn a living in Switzerland if not the city centres.
    There are such things as trains, buses, and roads, which allow you to go to suburbs in no time.

    There are NOT cheaper flats, AND getting flats is highly competitive. Forget buying, as there is almost nothing for sale.
    Uh? 2.3% of flats in Switzerland are empty, in Locarno it's 8%. They built far too much over the last years, and now they have a problem of oversupply.

    Depending on the place, of course flats are cheaper in Switzerland. Not in Zurich city centre, of course. Below I show you an advertisement for a 8 room house in Epauvillier, 1 hour by car from Basel. A 3000 sq. ft., 8 room house with a garden for 2.5 million HKD? Not cheaper than HK?

    Flats in the city centre are expensive, but then salaries are much higher than in HK for "normal" people. Hell, a fresh HK university graduate may earn HK18,000, less than half of a fresh Swiss university graduate.

    That house corresponds to a 5 year salary of a fresh university graduate. A 700 sq. ft. village house in HK might correspond to 23 years of salary of a fresh HK university graduate! Please don't say flats in Switzerland are not cheaper, and there is nothing for sale!

    I think you haven't quite understood something from my previous posts, and Kowloon72 is pointing this out: I have already experienced the excitement of exploring Europe and its culture. I have a master's degree in a European cultural topic for heaven's sake!
    This makes you an expert of Europe!

    Though you are right, there are many parts of Asia which are very beautiful, but staying in HK because it's in the same continent as the Himalayas is a bit silly.

    Anyway, to each its own!

    https://www.immobilier.ch/en/buy/hou...ms-2684-475240
    Last edited by john_1122; 09-10-2020 at 11:42 AM.
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  2. #82

    A crack shack in Epauvillier. It's the definition of boring.


  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    A crack shack in Epauvillier. It's the definition of boring.
    It depends what you like to do during your spare time. What did you do when you were living in Epauvillier? And what did you want to do, that you weren't able to do?

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kowloon72:
    You seem to be confused. We're discussing matters of opinion - whether people used the correct modal is just semantics. You don't get to overrule anyone. Nor do you get to invalidate my or anyone else's experiences.

    I moved back to a European/Western country having lived in Asia. I found it boring. Does that mean it is objectively boring? Of course not, there is no such thing. I said I found it boring. I stated twice that one man's meat is another's poison. I have lived in other western countries, too. And have travelled/vacationed in dozens of others. Just like anyone else, I was able to make a fair assumption that I would feel likewise in any of those places. Just like someone who has lived in a few Asian countries and travelled in a dozen more would be able to discern whether or not they found it to their tastes in terms of lifestyle.
    Nope, I am objecting to the summarising a whole region in one word. Yes you can say Europe is boring, or Asia is boring. in that case you may aswell say the whole world is boring. Of course you can say that. Your opinion. Your choice. It just doesn't really add anything to the conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_1122:
    I wonder why you give so little credit to Switzerland. It's true, people in the north are boring, and not very friendly.
    Not true - just an opinion. Have you met all the people in the north of Switzerland?
    @Elegiaque Just out of interest, where are you from originally?

    On another point - personally I didn't move back to the UK because of the 'culture', interesting things to do etc. I realised I wanted to be where I have long standing friends and where my family are.

    Once things are opened up again I will continue to travel/explore different regions of the world. There is a lot in Asia I still need to experience. However, I will do it from the UK as a base now I have the luxury of not needing to work and plenty of time.
    Last edited by Pauljoecoe; 09-10-2020 at 03:33 PM.
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  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiaque:
    Look at the HK museums? I don't need to, because I can go to Longji rice terraces or a Dong village and see living cultural heritage. I can go to temples. I can learn Chinese calligraphy, which is endlessly interesting.

    Cheaper, larger flats outside the city centre? Where do you think a foreigner is going to live and earn a living in Switzerland if not the city centres. There are NOT cheaper flats, AND getting flats is highly competitive. Forget buying, as there is almost nothing for sale. It may arguably be a worse place than HK, especially since in HK I've found a niche place. Granted, the quality of apartments will be higher.

    I think you haven't quite understood something from my previous posts, and Kowloon72 is pointing this out: I have already experienced the excitement of exploring Europe and its culture. I have a master's degree in a European cultural topic for heaven's sake! I have learned a language there already. I've been to countless operas and museums -- I used to find that very interesting to see all the different opera houses, museums, and places where famous composers were born/died. I'm not arguing that Europe objectively is boring, I'm saying from personal experiences and at this point in my life it may seem dull in comparison to the experiences I've already had and the experiences available in Asia that I still have yet to explore. I find learning language and exploring new cultures interesting, and at this stage, Europe can't really offer that to me anymore (unless I dig deeper).

    It kind of sucks getting old if you like new experiences, hmm?

    The landscape, though, I don't think will ever be boring to me, especially after being limited to HK for one year now. (But you know, Asia does have a the Himalayas! And there is still so much of China we want to see...)

    But I think I really want better quality food for our daily life, and you're right, clean air, too. I'm facing some chronic health issues, and I think the overall care I can get there will be better. Have to consider all factors...

    The thought of saying good bye to Asia for now, though, isn't easy.
    HK museums aren't the best, but they are not that awful. Some of them are ok.
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  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by john_1122:
    You have quite some time, and if you need to travel 10 hours to go somewhere interesting, it says a lot about HK! Anyway, think of all the places you can visit if you are willing to travel 10 hours from Switzerland.


    There are such things as trains, buses, and roads, which allow you to go to suburbs in no time.


    Uh? 2.3% of flats in Switzerland are empty, in Locarno it's 8%. They built far too much over the last years, and now they have a problem of oversupply.

    Depending on the place, of course flats are cheaper in Switzerland. Not in Zurich city centre, of course. Below I show you an advertisement for a 8 room house in Epauvillier, 1 hour by car from Basel. A 3000 sq. ft., 8 room house with a garden for 2.5 million HKD? Not cheaper than HK?

    Flats in the city centre are expensive, but then salaries are much higher than in HK for "normal" people. Hell, a fresh HK university graduate may earn HK18,000, less than half of a fresh Swiss university graduate.

    That house corresponds to a 5 year salary of a fresh university graduate. A 700 sq. ft. village house in HK might correspond to 23 years of salary of a fresh HK university graduate! Please don't say flats in Switzerland are not cheaper, and there is nothing for sale!



    This makes you an expert of Europe!

    Though you are right, there are many parts of Asia which are very beautiful, but staying in HK because it's in the same continent as the Himalayas is a bit silly.

    Anyway, to each its own!

    https://www.immobilier.ch/en/buy/hou...ms-2684-475240
    Have you actually been to a HK museum?

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboy:
    Have you actually been to a HK museum?
    To all of them. Several times. There isn't much else to do with children during the roughly 8 months a year HK is too hot and steamy to spend time outdoors. They are not too bad, but is this really all a city with 7.5 Million people can do??????

    Compare HK to Paris, London, Madrid, New York, etc., all cities with (very) roughly the same population. HK museums are rubbish in comparison, as is much else of what one usually calls "culture" (theater, operas, etc.).

    I have actually checked out Basel, because earlier I mentioned it. A small, provincial Swiss city with 180,000 people and ... 40 museums!!! Jesus!!!

    And HK is supposed to be a world city!!
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  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboy:
    HK museums aren't the best, but they are not that awful. Some of them are ok.
    I think I visited every museum in HK. I certainly tried to. There are some quite interesting little 'off the beaten track' places which are empty most of the time bar lots of staff that sit there all day on their phones.

    For example

    https://www.discoverhongkong.com/ca/...uk-museum.html

    https://theculturetrip.com/asia/chin...m-in-1-minute/

    I was actually pleasantly surprised by the number museums available in HK and all free!
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  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by john_1122:
    To all of them. Several times. There isn't much else to do with children during the roughly 8 months a year HK is too hot and steamy to spend time outdoors. They are not too bad, but is this really all a city with 7.5 Million people can do??????

    Compare HK to Paris, London, Madrid, New York, etc., all cities with (very) roughly the same population. HK museums are rubbish in comparison, as is much else of what one usually calls "culture" (theater, operas, etc.).

    I have actually checked out Basel, because earlier I mentioned it. A small, provincial Swiss city with 180,000 people and ... 40 museums!!! Jesus!!!

    And HK is supposed to be a world city!!
    Well, I have some doubts about the truthfulness of your claim that you visited all the museums in HK. But back to your point, HK has never been strong in what you define as "culture". So that is kind of a moot point to compare HK with the cultural capitals of New York, London and Paris. That is kinda comparing apple to oranges. So no, HK museums are not rubbish, rather they exist in spite of a hostile environment. Rather one should appreciate that there are museums in HK when the predominant government and business elite have never bothered with placing much emphasis on culture.
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  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboy:
    Well, I have some doubts about the truthfulness of your claim that you visited all the museums in HK. But back to your point, HK has never been strong in what you define as "culture". So that is kind of a moot point to compare HK with the cultural capitals of New York, London and Paris. That is kinda comparing apple to oranges. So no, HK museums are not rubbish, rather they exist in spite of a hostile environment. Rather one should appreciate that there are museums in HK when the predominant government and business elite have never bothered with placing much emphasis on culture.
    Haha. I win, you lose.

    Though I have to admit that the movie industry is pretty good. There is a lot of energy in HK, and HK people are very dynamic, which I guess is a condition for striving (or surviving) in this city. Just look at people's creativity during the protests. It was inspiring!!!
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