Leaving HK for the kids...

[Naatalq]

Everyone I know in UK, who has a child/children, either woman stays at home with them or the grandparents help to take care of them so that both parents can work.

[Jillypots]

Why only the women? Can’t dads stay at home?

[Kiz]

Everyone I know in UK, who has a child/children, either woman stays at home with them or the grandparents help to take care of them so that both parents can work.

Exactly, the Brit says no need for grandparents, or childcare other than a friendly neighbour for 2 working parents. At least not in the uk

Ok I'm out of this conversation as clearly nothing will be gained from this

[Naatalq]

Why only the women? Can’t dads stay at home?

Of course they can, they just choose not to- at least people that I know.

[TheBrit]

Everyone I know in UK, who has a child/children, either woman stays at home with them or the grandparents help to take care of them so that both parents can work.

I know plenty of familes like that too, by far a comfortable majority.

Exactly, the Brit says no need for grandparents, or childcare other than a friendly neighbour for 2 working parents. At least not in the uk

if I say I know some it is possible to buy green apples, and I know families who buy green apples, does that mean that there are no families who buy red apples? Your logic is astoundingly stupid.

Ok I'm out of this conversation

I think that's for the best.

[hullexile]

Adopting, fostering, helping take care of needy in the community (homeless, elderly, victims), helping environmental causes, adopting/fostering homeless animals.

I have a memory visiting one of my best friends with her baby twins and her 6 year old, sitting out in a plaza, everyone walking around with their "new" humans, while there was a blind homeless man sitting in a corner petting his dog unable to do basic tasks. It left quite an impression on me that we keep bringing more people into the world while not taking care of those all around us.

It may not be for everyone, and I know there are some people who really are keen and "destined" to become parents and will in fact be damn good parents. But I also see some, including some friends, who have had kids and turns out parenting isn't really their cup of tea.

At the same time, especially coming from rich developed countries, we have opportunities to pursue intellectually challenging and fulfilling things and careers and may not have the "free time" needed to do both. Biodiversity around the world is plummeting, we know we're running out of resources while we trash the planet, we're hardly leaving any wild space for other living beings... so, I think radically rethinking biological children is important.

If I get to become an aunt I look forward and hope I'll be welcomed as an "adjunct parent" to help (for as long as there is no vomiting!).

Anyway, thank goodness children are pretty resilient. With grandparents, siblings, nannies, alone, friends, they cope and develop and see these situations we fret over with innocence! As long as they're provided with their needs and love and sheltered from harm...

I'll note this argument seems to be between male posters and female posters and possible UK/EU vs American... coming from incredibly different perspectives. No point in trying to agree as those are very different perspectives...

And with all due respect, @hullinexile and @TheBrit I take it you are financially independent.

Not sure what financially independent means. I am on a very small pension, less than the UK state pension.

[Aramis]

I don't understand why things have to be one way or other. Childcare is not the same for everyone, it's a series of choices depending on the situation and values held. Nowadays, some people want everything, career, kids, time to play so that often require paid help but it's a choice. It's also not necessarily true that your career takes a massive hit if you take time off, it really depends on your field. Almost all of my close friends(male and female) have taken some kind of parental leave(all professionals)and all have done well and have held or now holding senior positions.

I also had a good friend that was a single professional working parent with two kids and she managed incredibly well with very minimal support. Her kids were very independent helping with the cooking, cleaning and other household chores and she got them involved in competitive sports which was a form of childcare. Basically, everyone adapts to their situation and do what they have to do to make it work.

If people prefer to stay in HK to have domestic helper and a certain kind of lifestyle that they may not have elsewhere, it's also a perfectly valid choice and I see nothing wrong with it. There are advantages and disadvantages with every choice and I don't see why others should make judgment on choices they don't have to make.

[mrgoodkat]

So when school ends at 2 and work ends at 6, where are the kids?

Paid childcare or family help.

We'd have lunch at school, then do our homework under supervision and then go out and play until 17:00 or so. Not sure the UK has something like that. Kinda like day school.

[hullexile]

We'd have lunch at school, then do our homework under supervision and then go out and play until 17:00 or so. Not sure the UK has something like that. Kinda like day school.

Schools normally finish between 3 and 4, then there might be a sports club or something and some schools have homework clubs.

[merchantms]

We'd have lunch at school, then do our homework under supervision and then go out and play until 17:00 or so. Not sure the UK has something like that. Kinda like day school.

When I was in school they weren’t free and were closed during school holidays.

Before I was a parent when I worked in the City of London, I used to see parents sprinting from their desks to the nearby nursery which closed at 7 pm. Then they had their commutes home, bath and wind down for baby etc. I don’t know which after school clubs are open that late for school aged children, those normally finish around 5.

My colleagues in NY and London are much more vocal about not wanting to go back to the office full-time post pandemic. You can understand why when you consider the challenges they face if they are parents.