Leaving HK for the kids...

[TheBrit]

Most of the professional couples I know in big cities have either a nanny (or au pair or babysitter - choose your term.

Hahahahahahahaha. You are out of touch and you have absolutely no idea how the vast majority of families outside your expat bubble live. Paid help? Hahahahahahaha.

Men who raised their kids in the 1980s or have a stay at home wife shouldn’t comment on stuff they know nothing about.

Ahh, trying to silence anyone who disagrees with you - always a fantastic way to admit you are losing an argument.

[merchantms]

Hahahahahahahaha. You are out of touch and you have absolutely no idea how the vast majority of families outside your expat bubble live. Paid help? Hahahahahahaha.



Ahh, trying to silence anyone who disagrees with you - always a fantastic way to admit you are losing an argument.

I’m right on this, trust me. Ask your colleagues in London, outside of COVID, kids under 10 and both parents work, who watches your kids?

If less than 75% say grandparents or paid nanny I’ll buy you a virtual sake. Let me know.

[MABinPengChau]

I wish people would just be more open to considering alternatives to becoming biological parents. I think the 21st century needs a radical rethinking of what "parenting" means and alternative ways to fulfill those desires.

Yes, you can be very involved with relatives' children, your neighborhood children (volunteer at a community center, your local religious community, etc.). I will not have grandchildren (daughter has made that abundantly clear) and I get my "fix" through helping out my sister's grandchildren.

"Big brothers" and "Big sisters" to help single parent families, heck, take on a foster child (older, say a teenager who doesn't need after school care), there are any number of ways to be involved.

[hullexile]

I never said a helper.

Most of the professional couples I know in big cities have either a nanny (or au pair or babysitter - choose your term. Person who comes to their house to watch their kids for money) or rely heavily on grandparents.

So when I say those who leave HK back to the US or UK struggle, it’s not because they need a helper to mop their floor. It’s because it’s genuinely hard to balance work and childcare. Not everyone moves back to the town where they have friends or family to help either.

Men who raised their kids in the 1980s or have a stay at home wife shouldn’t comment on stuff they know nothing about.

But the poster who made the point I was responding to only mentioned helpers. If you want to take this off on a tangent about general childcare fine.

P.S. my youngest kids are 12 and 14 so hardly raised in the 1980s.

[MABinPengChau]

I never said a helper.



So when I say those who leave HK back to the US or UK struggle, it’s not because they need a helper to mop their floor. It’s because it’s genuinely hard to balance work and childcare. Not everyone moves back to the town where they have friends or family to help either.

As a single parent, I was more than grateful for the help from my mother- moved into her house when my daughter was about 3 and by the time she was 5 my mother took early retirement to help out with her (and also look after her father). Which is why I have always provided a flat to my mother since 1999, it's the very least I could do for all that she did for me.

[merchantms]

Sorry it just really riles me that any suggestion that life can be challenging in the West is responded to with “spoiled brats who can’t wipe their own arses.”

Look at divorce rates, depression, childhood anxiety, addiction, obesity etc rates. People are not all living happy perfect lives over there. There are so many social stresses - long commutes, less vacation time (in the US at least), social isolation.

No country is perfect but not having a helper is really not the primary reason former expats (or born and raised HKers) face challenges moving with children to the West.

The lack of acknowledgement of that seems really out of touch to me and doesn’t match with the experiences my friends - 30-somethings with young kids in US and UK - are having. Having to move in with their parents because housing + childcare costs were impossible to keep up with. Having only one child when they wanted 2 or 3 because of cost. These are not privileged pampered problems.

[TheBrit]

I’m right on this, trust me. Ask your colleagues in London, outside of COVID, kids under 10 and both parents work, who watches your kids?

If less than 75% say grandparents or paid nanny I’ll buy you a virtual sake. Let me know.

You're wrong on this, trust me. I already know the answer. None of them have helpers or au pairs or paid childcare. Not a single one.

[MABinPengChau]

Sorry it just really riles me that any suggestion that life can be challenging in the West is responded to with “spoiled brats who can’t wipe their own arses.”

Look at divorce rates, depression, childhood anxiety, addiction, obesity etc rates. People are not all living happy perfect lives over there. There are so many social stresses - long commutes, less vacation time (in the US at least), social isolation.

No country is perfect but not having a helper is really not the primary reason former expats (or born and raised HKers) face challenges moving with children to the West.

The lack of acknowledgement of that seems really out of touch to me and doesn’t match with the experiences my friends - 30-somethings with young kids in US and UK - are having. Having to move in with their parents because housing + childcare costs were impossible to keep up with. Having only one child when they wanted 2 or 3 because of cost. These are not privileged pampered problems.

This is precisely the reason that many young adults (like my own child) are choosing not to have children. People who haven't lived in the US don't understand the crazy long commute that even the average person has, coupled with the crazy cost of childcare and the crazy cost of housing in areas with decent-paying jobs. And the fact that you generally need to live in a pricier neighborhood if you want anything less than horrendous public schooling for you child...

The lack of vacation/paid time off, even for childbirth, it's completely nuts. So a lot of Millennials are giving it a miss and I really can't blame them...

[Kiz]

You're wrong on this, trust me. I already know the answer. None of them have helpers or au pairs or paid childcare. Not a single one.

So what do they do with their 18 month old when they are both at work and their grandparents aren't around and they don't have paid childcare of any kind? Are these really 2 working parents?

Childcare is a huge expense for everyone I know overseas.

[hullexile]

No country is perfect but not having a helper is really not the primary reason former expats (or born and raised HKers) face challenges moving with children to the West.

Which is why I challenged the poster so you are agreeing with me.

Not once did I say things were easier or better in the west. In fact I clearly stated raising kids without a helper requires hard work and sacrifice. So you are arguing with me over something I never said.