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Guilty until proven innocent

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  1. #61

    shouldn't they have sent you all the evidence first..otherwise how can you plead?

    Ask for all the evidence and you can get 45 minutes free legal advice from HK lawyers who offer the free legal advice scheme.

    This is not legal aid but its free.

    Best call them up. You can meet face to face or on telephone...
    https://lawdirectory.hklawsoc.org.hk...l-Consultation

    HK_Katherine likes this.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinosaurs88:
    shouldn't they have sent you all the evidence first..otherwise how can you plead?

    Ask for all the evidence and you can get 45 minutes free legal advice from HK lawyers who offer the free legal advice scheme.

    This is not legal aid but its free.

    Best call them up. You can meet face to face or on telephone...
    https://lawdirectory.hklawsoc.org.hk...l-Consultation
    Thanks mate!

    I received 1) letter from police concluding their investigation with offense: careless driving ; 2) court date for next month to attend Kowloon court

    No details/evidence is provided from police regarding their investigation or supporting reason behind the offense.

    I spend a few hours reviewing Careless driving records on LegalREF website. So far, all cases institute some physical damage, accident, pedestrian hit, etc.

    Non of the cases I found were remotely close to my case where no car to car contact was made...

    If I hire a Lawyer, I can safely assume the money will be out of my own pocket regardless of the outcome.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.YU:
    I am just angry how a petty and mentally deranged person can complain into getting his way. I am curious if this case closed and proven innocent, can I sue this person for false accusations?
    Unfortunately for meaningful amounts of money, there is no real access legal remedies for the average person in Hong Kong.

    In cases that require the High Court (>$3 million) for example, a barrister is required, as solicitors have limited rights of audience in the court. The barrister is likely to cost around $50k for the first day, and around $20k/day thereafter.

    The barrister cannot take instructions from you, so you still need a solicitor to instruct the barrister. Add on another few thousand an hour there. All this excludes the actual court costs, which seems cheap by comparison.

    I recall there being talk of solicitors being given more authority in the High Court, but not sure if anything has happened on that front. I am not a lawyer.

    For cases under $3 million, the District Court can handle the case and the barrister can be avoided, but the costs are still likely to be substantial.

    Unlike the US, UK, Australia, fees contingent on the case outcome are illegal in HK under the law of champerty, thus removing access to the courts for the majority of the population.
    shri, seirin and hongkong7 like this.

  4. #64

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    Dont plead guilty to Careless Driving for no reason if you are not at any fault. The next time u end up in traffic court that old careless driving record will come back to bite you in the ass i speak from experience lol

    Fight the fucker who is wasting your time. Once your case is proved you are not at fault then you sue that fucker for wasting your time and effort. You should file a complaint with the Police as well for wasting your time when you showed them and the police that had arrived during the actual so called crash that there was never a crash/accident. The crazy fucker wasted Police time as well.

    ArrynField likes this.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckster007:
    Dont plead guilty to Careless Driving for no reason if you are not at any fault. The next time u end up in traffic court that old careless driving record will come back to bite you in the ass i speak from experience lol

    Fight the fucker who is wasting your time. Once your case is proved you are not at fault then you sue that fucker for wasting your time and effort. You should file a complaint with the Police as well for wasting your time when you showed them and the police that had arrived during the actual so called crash that there was never a crash/accident. The crazy fucker wasted Police time as well.
    Both the officers at the scene said no accident to be reported... They knew clearly the other driver was being a twat. Just my usual luck to run into crazy fucks.

  6. #66

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    That careless driving could turn into a case of a lifetime of physio and other damages... DO FIND OUT what the basis of the charge is and if the other person is claiming damaged property or injuries etc.

    A civil case could follow once yih are guilty of careless driving.

    Pointless to plead guilty until you know what the extent of the charges are.

    Also what the cops said on the scene is meaningless in my opinion.. What they recorded in the statement and what they used to build the case is more important.


  7. #67

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    Get a lawyer. Its past the point you could simply hope this went away.


  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    That careless driving could turn into a case of a lifetime of physio and other damages... DO FIND OUT what the basis of the charge is and if the other person is claiming damaged property or injuries etc.

    A civil case could follow once yih are guilty of careless driving.

    Pointless to plead guilty until you know what the extent of the charges are.

    Also what the cops said on the scene is meaningless in my opinion.. What they recorded in the statement and what they used to build the case is more important.
    yea.. I wouldnt be surprised if the fuckers end game is to try and pull of injury claim afterwards.

    I didnt inform my insurance yet, since there was no actual report/case made at time of incident (back in FEB). I better inform them soon to avoid any unwanted issues...
    shri likes this.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by seirin:
    Precisely why it might not be a bad idea to hire a lawyer - they can probably advise there. However, I don't know what happens with legal fees if you hire a lawyer and the police suddenly drop their case.

    It's not about the monetary damages or fines but it would be good to teach them a lesson or two about how to behave a decent human being.
    Welcome to HK justice, there will be no lessons taught. There is no such offence as wasting your time, nor wasting police time.

    The fact the police have moved ahead with prosecution only goes to show what twats they are too.

    I'm not familiar with the careless driving offence, bit it sounds like you need a lawyer. For a traffic violation, I'd be tempted to take whatever free option I could get, but you should be fully conversant with the nature of the penalty, the potential criminal record, and the civil liability attached before you do that. Lawyers are expensive and even if you win any case it will still cost you significant amounts. Costs paid by the court to those obviously innocent typically (assuming the judge grants you costs) run at around 60%-70%.

    So you could already be in the hole for 10-100k.

    It's deeply unfair, the police are well known for prosecuting non-chinese when the complainant is Chinese.

    It's not 'pointless' to plead guilty at this stage, it would be positively stupid....

  10. #70

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    I will say that if the other guy is Chinese, you won't be able to teach him anything about the law nor civil behavior. He can smell a buck and won't relent.

    blandy62 likes this.

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