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Is Hong Kong Bilingual?

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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    Those countries devleopped long long time ago....no comparison...
    Wrong. Japan got back on its feet in the post-WW2 era. Historically, that was not a long time ago. South Korea took off after the Korean War, now they export Samsungs and LGs around the world, and their general level of English fluency is even worse than the average HKer. Has that stopped them? Nope.

    As for France, Spain and Italy, they were humming along fine in the 60's, when the English-speaking US was well-established as one of the two top superpower in the world.
    Last edited by Watercooler; 13-06-2014 at 11:48 AM.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    Everyone has the right not to speak it - obviously...

    Next.
    Then why are you going on about people refusing to speak it then?

  3. #23

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    As long as they speak the language of money, they will find ways to communicate with others and execute trades.

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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses:
    As long as they speak the language of money, they will find ways to communicate with others and execute trades.
    Precisely.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watercooler:
    Wrong. Japan got back on its feet in the post-WW2 era. Historically, that was not a long time ago. South Korea took off after the Korean War, now they export Samsungs and LGs around the world, and their general level of English fluency is even worse than the average HKer. Has that stopped them? Nope.

    As for France, Spain and Italy, they were humming along fine in the 60's, when the English-speaking US was well-established as one of the two top superpower in the world.
    you said, Fance, Spain and Italy - they all developped at a time the world wasn't as opened as now....

    Next.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    you said, Fance, Spain and Italy - they all developped at a time the world wasn't as opened as now....

    Next.
    Where is "Fance"? I said Japan too. READ my original post.

    In any case, they didn't just ground to a halt in the post-WW2 era did they? When English dominated international commerce. Yet their lack of English-speaking populace didn't stop them did they?

  7. #27

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    I guess the real question is "is Hong Kong trilingual" since most Cantonese speakers have a decent proficiency in either Mandarin or English - Better than we English expats can typically say.

    As for why the level of English is 'bad', I do see a lot of snobbery and ignorance when expats discuss this. Why are we all so bad at learning Cantonese? Because it is HARD. why? Because the two languages couldn't be much more different. Grammar, vocab, writing system, vowel sounds, consonant sounds, tones, word roots, intonation, verb/ noun bias, child directed speech, Etc. Etc. Etc. Are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in the two respective languages. It works both ways. Asking a Cantonese speaker without regular exposure to native English to pick up this completely alien language is not easy.

    Completely different to asking a European to learn a European language, or even any non tonal language speaker to learn English.

    Considering the difficulty and the time already consumed just to write their own ridiculously complex writing system, I think HK does a decent job, and we as expats who can't speak Chinese should shut up and admire them for the effort they've made.

    I also think a lot of us, me included, cling to this concept of 'official language' to excuse our laziness or failure to learn Chinese. Plenty of countries have largely redundant official languages when compared to HK's grasp of English.

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    Last edited by justjoe86; 13-06-2014 at 12:17 PM.
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  8. #28

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    Is HK bilingual? Pretty much no. Have English standards deteriorated? Definitely, English was spoken at a far higher standard when I first started coming here in the early 90's.

    Anyway I do see in this thread that many have fallen into the trap of the English and Mandarin debate. That is actually the red herring and one that many parents fell for straight after the 1997 handover. The belief then, as it is with some here, was that English was no longer required. That their offspring could learn Mandarin and opportunities would present themselves across the border. There were no opportunities across the border though, because at the same time mainland Chinese were learning English. So they covered Mandarin / English requirements.

    Fast forward to now and job opportunities on the mainland are becoming thin on the ground and there are nowhere near enough opportunities to satisfy a major percentage of mainland university graduates let alone graduates from HK with limited language capabilities. Students really need to be trilingual here and cram in more languages if they are good. As China moves away from just being able to throw unlimited human resources at anything and has to modernise those opportunities will diminish with time.

    I don't see English being replaced as the international business language in either my own or my kids lifetimes.


  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by justjoe86:
    I guess the real question is "is Hong Kong trilingual" since most Cantonese speakers have a decent proficiency in either Mandarin or English - Better than we English expats can typically say.

    As for why the level of English is 'bad', I do see a lot of snobbery and ignorance when expats discuss this. Why are we all so bad at learning Cantonese? Because it is HARD. why? Because the two languages couldn't be much more different. Grammar, vocab, writing system, vowel sounds, consonant sounds, tones, word roots, intonation, verb/ noun bias, child directed speech, Etc. Etc. Etc. Are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in the two respective languages. It works both ways. Asking a Cantonese speaker without regular exposure to native English to pick up this completely alien language is not easy.

    Completely different to asking a European to learn a European language, or even any non tonal language speaker to learn English.

    Considering the difficulty and the time already consumed just to write their own ridiculously complex writing system, I think HK does a decent job, and we as expats who can't speak Chinese should shut up and admire them for the effort they've made.

    I also think a lot of us, me included, cling to this concept of 'official language' to excuse our laziness or failure to learn Chinese. Plenty of countries have largely redundant official languages when compared to HK's grasp of English.

    Sent from my SGP511 using GeoClicks mobile app
    Well said. I agree completely. HK is actually very generous in that one does not need to learn the native language to be able to live and work here. Signages are also in English in HK. There are bilingual directions and labels for many shops and their products. I suspect some expats are spoiled. Just because some locals' grasp of English is poor make some expats lives a little more difficult than it would otherwise be, we got all this complaining.
    Last edited by Watercooler; 13-06-2014 at 12:29 PM.
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  10. #30

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    The fact I'm in agreement with Watercooler fills me with dread and self doubt.

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