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Occupy Central - Week 2 News / Updates

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  1. #21

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    I'm surprised some of you miss the benefit of this demonstration. The PRC will think twice about pushing their agenda on HK. HK probably won't have full democracy in 2017 after this demonstration. But if the PRC wants to amend the Basic Law, or make a change to the curriculum to be more nationalistic, etc, they know that any attempt to push their agenda can lead to mass demonstrations like this one.

    At the very least, the PRC may decide to not push through high profile and controversial issues because these demonstrations become a headache. That doesn't mean they won't try push their agenda if it's low profile, but they will probably think twice if it's high profile.

    drumbrake, Enderman, elle and 2 others like this.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by orionx999:
    I'm surprised some of you miss the benefit of this demonstration. The PRC will think twice about pushing their agenda on HK. HK probably won't have full democracy in 2017 after this demonstration. But if the PRC wants to amend the Basic Law, or make a change to the curriculum to be more nationalistic, etc, they know that any attempt to push their agenda can lead to mass demonstrations like this one.

    At the very least, the PRC may decide to not push through high profile and controversial issues because these demonstrations become a headache. That doesn't mean they won't try push their agenda if it's low profile, but they will probably think twice if it's high profile.
    Meanwhile, in real life....nothing has changed at all. I'm really mystified how anyone can brand this protest a success.

    Do some people actually think HK is going to exist as a separate entity in 2047? You know that some point between now and then the border is going to be completely removed and Hong Kong will be a nice suburb of Shenzen with some colonial history.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by mid_gen:
    Well, as I suspected, it fizzled out and the protesters gained nothing. Slipped off the news radar internationally, business as usual.

    Seems the main problem (apart from the fact it was a lost cause before it started), was that it wasn't a single movement with a stated aim, just a rag tag bunch of (no offence) kids making a noise.
    I think you are wrong.

    These protests should be seen as act one of a very long process and complicated relationship between HK and mainland China.

    While HK 'belongs' to China under the one country two system principle, a percentage of the population has made it clear to Beijing that it could not to as it does in the mainland ie decide without consulting.

    It may well be that in 2017 nothing changes ...but what about 2022 for example?

    What sets HK apart from other major Mainland cities is a 'free press', rule of law, freedom to do business (ie admittedly it isn't gvt control but there is a huge tycoon control) etc etc. the younger generation has made it clear during these protest that they want this to remain this way.

    Btw you can't say these protests didn't have any aim. They had one very clear aim: universal suffrage. Indeed the aim was not achieved but you can't say protesters came in aimless, that's just not true.

    On top of this, these protests have shown the world that it is possible to protest for over a week without having; dead people, car burnt, stores destroyed etc etc.

    The police did overall a good job given the circumstances
    The protesters did a top job behaving very well and putting the issue on the global stage and showing Beijing they are no sheep.

    After u are right, they did not and most likely will not obtain anything for 2017....but they have started a process.


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  4. #24

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    I think this movement has been a great little exposé of gummint collusion with triad society and the (ab)use of the popo as agents of fear.

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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought:
    I think this movement has been a great little exposé of gummint collusion with triad society and the (ab)use of the popo as agents of fear.
    Yes the govt, via higher ranking police members in CID, do have a line of communication with HK's dragon heads, that has been going on for decades. It is also why in most part, HK is relatively safe and petty crime ( especially where tourists apply ) is kept in check.

    A blind eye is given to a certain degree. I don't have a problem with this arrangement, as I believe it is a far better situation to be in than the usual western underworld that keeps itself hidden in the shadows, the police having zero communication with their city's crime bosses. It seems to work in HK, hard to argue about.

    Crime will always exist, but atleast here they keep it within a sphere of maintained control.

  6. #26

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    After u are right, they did not and most likely will not obtain anything for 2017....but they have started a process.
    Spot on. I've been tweeting this to a few journos and active Occupy-ers.

    This is not a revolutionary moment, it is more evolutionary. Thought processes will change, people's attitude will change and over time we'll see a better Hong Kong. It will take longer than 2017 to get full on democracy, however, I think what has happened over the last 10 days will ensure that we'll (hopefully!) see a much better (for HK hopefully!) candidate being put forward, for CE in 2017.

    CY at the end of the day, is an accountant who is out of his element when creatively dealing with people and ideas.

  7. #27

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    A big win would be ensuring that the Election commission will report invalid votes in 2017. This should give the citizens of HK a chance to voice their opinions on the candidates by casting invalid votes.

    TheBrit likes this.

  8. #28

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    A blind eye is given to a certain degree. I don't have a problem with this arrangement, as I believe it is a far better situation to be in than the usual western underworld that keeps itself hidden in the shadows, the police having zero communication with their city's crime bosses. It seems to work in HK, hard to argue about.

    Crime will always exist, but atleast here they keep it within a sphere of maintained control.
    @Skyhook I agree with you on keeping close tabs etc... BUT, who polices those who draw the line of what is tolerable and what is bad crime?

    The ICAC traditionally "HAD" that role. They have shown how easy it is to put your head in the sand and ignore obvious crimes, where the powerful are involved.

    The systems work for most of the part... but every now and then they get eroded and the erosion becomes the new acceptable standard.

  9. #29

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    Connaught Road in Admiralty and Hennessy Road in Central is stll blocked as far I'm aware, a bit too early to claim OC has "fizzled" out just yet...


  10. #30

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    i was a skeptic of the protestors and to be honest rather pissed off with their disruption to HK. I was getting calls from ppl in 3rd world countries asking me whether I am ok and is HK safe...?

    But now I am glad it happened and the protestors are at least getting a dialogue now with Carrie Lam. These students have shown the rulers what they want is simply to uphold the promises made and if not, they are not only ready to mobilize their fellow students but sway the general public's opinion and the international news outlets to HK.
    I do believe there was a lot of vagueness in the joint declaration in relation to universal suffrage so an interpretation was necessary.

    Now at least we know no CE will dare ever talk about Article 23....

    HK_Katherine likes this.

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