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  1. #31

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    Not sure how this is developing. Assaulted at HKU?

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    @Skyhook I agree with you on keeping close tabs etc... BUT, who polices those who draw the line of what is tolerable and what is bad crime?

    The ICAC traditionally "HAD" that role. They have shown how easy it is to put your head in the sand and ignore obvious crimes, where the powerful are involved.

    The systems work for most of the part... but every now and then they get eroded and the erosion becomes the new acceptable standard.
    Not disagreeing with your main point, but its best to clarify, the ICAC's jurisdiction and mandate is limited to anti-corruption, not general police abuse/crime cases. There is not much the ICAC can do over issues beyond its area of coverage.

    (By the way, as an interesting historical footnote, the very first target of the ICAC (when it was first established in the 1970's) was in fact the HK police, which was overwhelmed with corruption at the time. The ICAC did a good job of cleaning up the police, although for a time this lead to a degree of tension and rivalry between the two law enforcement agencies. But relations between the police and ICAC have been stable since then, as each identified and respect the other's "turf".)

    The main thing is that the ICAC only covers crimes related to bribery, general police or government abuse of powers usually is beyond the ICAC's jurisdiction, unless a corruption element is involved. So for example, the ICAC does not have any power (or capability for that matter) to look into the protester's complaint regarding the police looking the other way over anti-OC people attacking them at Mongkok. That is simply not what the ICAC is equipped for.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 07-10-2014 at 10:19 AM.

  3. #33

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    When the people who draw the line change it, there is always room for corruption. Advantages are give put, which are not given to ordinary people on a equal and transparent basis.


  4. #34

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    If the ICAC haul Jimmy Lai in for donations... They should be fair and investigate all other donations. The CE, whom they report to should order such investigations to maintain credibility.

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  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    When the people who draw the line change it, there is always room for corruption. Advantages are give put, which are not given to ordinary people on a equal and transparent basis.
    True, but as a practical matter, you must show there is an improper exchange of benefits for corruption charges to stick, and so far one can't show that is the case for the police turning a blind eye in Mongkok. You can speculate there might have been corruption, but speculation alone is insufficient.

    The ICAC can open investigations if there is an issue of suspicious monetary exchanges, as was the case with Jimmy Lai. But so far there is no evidence it was improper, hence the ICAC has not laid charges. You can say the tip leading to the investigation was politically motivated, but whether charges can be laid rely on evidence, and so far Lai is in the clear.

    Did the police received bribes for turning the other way at Mongkok? No evidence of that so far. The thing is, the ICAC is not an all-purpose watchdog on the police and government. Nor was it meant to be. Its mandate has always been corruption.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 07-10-2014 at 10:32 AM.

  6. #36

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    Name:  Screenshot_2014-10-07-10-27-59.png
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    More info.
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  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    ...A blind eye is given to a certain degree. I don't have a problem with this arrangement...
    This hands-off approach may or may not have contributed to reduced crime rates, who knows, but there is something to be said about unleashing the dogs on civilians. I'm sure you understand this was the point in my post which you have quoted.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 07-10-2014 at 10:34 AM.
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  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:


    More info.
    Keep us up-to-date on this development. Is that really a mainland "student" I wonder?

    Update: The SCMP reported that the mainlander was not a HKU student. Hmmm...was he "ordered" to take to take the assault charge (and possible jail time) in return for something else I wonder?
    Last edited by Cho-man; 07-10-2014 at 10:40 AM.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    @Skyhook

    The systems work for most of the part... but every now and then they get eroded and the erosion becomes the new acceptable standard.
    Sure like any system it can be prone to variation in regard to how well the relationship works. For the most part as you agree it works. One of my friends was in the HK police force as a high ranking member of CID, retired a few years ago, I knew him when he was still in the force, I regularly dropped in to his office for a coffee if I was passing his way and used the police carpark lol

    He was a wealth of experienced knowledge on how the whole thing works here. There is definitely an unwritten rule dictated down from the police to HK's underworld that they dont involve tourists/expats in violent crimes etc. If they do the police will come down on them like a tonne of bricks and make life difficult for those responsible. They ( the police ) also hand pick who they are going to raid via the help of Dragon Heads when the govt needs to be seen to be doing something about a particular crime of the moment, say, software/video piracy. Even within the ranks of a criminal organisation there will be bad eggs that refuse to stay within their ranks, police will discuss with a dragon head as to who they should make an example of. Dragon head will tell em who to bust and the police are seen to be doing their jobs, while dragon head gets his bad egg problem dealt with. Just one of many examples of how things ' actually ' work here.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought:
    This hands-off approach may or may not have contributed to reduced crime rates, who knows, but there is something to be said about unleashing the dogs on civilians. I'm sure you understand this was the point in my post which you have quoted.
    We'll probably never know who was responsible, but not surprising that the police used this method to get out of the media spotlight while using triad muscle to do its dirty work. I don't agree with that move, but it's logical that they would go down this path, considering how easy it would be for them to mobilise opposing manpower, to up the ante.

    Name a govt that doesn't turn nasty when its citizens potentially threaten its power/control? Excluding Scandinavian countries, majority of the rest wouldnt hesitate to use force if it's citizens ran amok in a seditious manner. Remember, our pseudo democratic nations are NOT afraid of the people and are perfectly armed to the teeth to protect themselves during civil unrest.

    I'll start being less negative toward " modern day " democracy when I start seeing western govts display more courtesy toward its citizens and not allow failing govts to run the full term of their elected presidency/prime ministerial-ship. A true democracy would be able to oust a failed leader tomorrow at the stroke of a pen, should the people not be pleased with their elected leaders performance.

    I'd also like public oversight of ALL laws and policy to be voted by the public, not within the dingy confines of parliament via a bunch of disconnected ( from the people ) lawyers.

    Democracy is a crock of shit in its present form, in my opinion, especially while it continues to look after the wealthiest individuals in their nation. Australia is ranked in the top 5 democracies on the planet, it's still got issues, bloated salaries and perks that the average Australian never sees, ie full pay for the rest of their life during retirement, use of govt cars while retired, use of a Qantas card while retired. That is very wrong in my opinion.

    Being a part of the govt should be seen as an act of community service to the people you represent.

    That's my view and why I reckon democracy in Hong Kong will just make it shedloads easier for the power elite to do exactly what they want. For the 85% of HK people who earn meager incomes, it wont make a jot of difference to their life what flavour their political system is..

    But hey, I cant fault them for trying to make a well intentioned difference, but at the end of the day, Chinese culture will make that quite difficult to achieve via built in ancestral views about equality, class ism, caste, rigged business etc etc. Maybe in time ( a very long time ) things will become a more level playing field, HK aint fair to those low on the ladder of power & financial influence..

    Money talks, bullshit walks, in this town, dont ever forget that
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