Like Tree113Likes

Week 5 of Occupy Central: Updates & Discussions

Closed Thread
Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 10 ... LastLast
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    3,921

    Mike Rowse has a somewhat humorous but insightful (and also a little provocative) article on the lack of leadership in Hong Kong and how that is driving the stalemate between the OC movement and the government:

    Hongkongers look in vain for the leadership they need | South China Morning Post

    Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor is viewed favourably by most people, or at least was until recently, though her standing may have taken a hit after the rather wooden performance in the debate with students. But one reason we are in this present pickle is that she refused to meet them in the first place during the consultation phase of the political reform process. And not only the students: other moderate democratic groups were also pointedly ignored.
    What kind of leader sets out on a high-profile public consultation exercise, but deliberately leaves out whole swathes of the community? And then presents a report to the central government, pretending that it is a fair reflection of the community's views.

    How about the three wise men who dreamed up the whole idea of Occupy Central in the first place? Just where are associate professor Benny Tai Yiu-ting, Reverend Chu Yiu-ming and Dr Chan Kin-man anyway? Well, the short answer is they were gazumped in their own civil disobedience movement by the students. By their own admission, they have lost control of the situation and are not in a position to steer the occupation anywhere. How could we present them to our visitors as people of influence?

    Which leaves us with the Hong Kong Federation of Students. But they have no end game, no exit strategy. Their "plan", if it can be called such, seems to consist of sitting in the streets until something turns up. They should have quit two weeks ago while they still had the initiative, with the unspoken threat to return if necessary.

    Well, Beijing has no intention of changing course, and the Hong Kong government doesn't seem to have the brain power to break the impasse. So I am afraid that unless the youngsters have a sudden brainwave, we are stuck where we are.
    But I have an idea of my own: why not just ask the little green men if they would like to take over running the whole damn show?


  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HK
    Posts
    14,624
    Quote Originally Posted by Mefisto:
    Just curious but what's the source of that claim?

    And why were they all attacked?
    The Standard.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,452

    Funny how TVB has the attack on their reporter by anti-OC on loop during every news, but they were all quiet about anti-OC attacking the studenta.

    Cho-man likes this.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    3,921
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgoodkat:
    Funny how TVB has the attack on their reporter by anti-OC on loop during every news, but they were all quiet about anti-OC attacking the studenta.
    OC protesters are expendable, but TVB journalists are not.
    shri likes this.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sin bin
    Posts
    1,896
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgoodkat:
    Funny how TVB has the attack on their reporter by anti-OC on loop during every news, but they were all quiet about anti-OC attacking the studenta.
    PRC's own Xinhua has also reported the outrageous attacks on journalists in TST.

    They quote Hong Kong's Chief Secretary Carrie Lam identifying the attackers as Occupy Central supporters...

    Cho-man likes this.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    3,921
    Quote Originally Posted by Mefisto:
    PRC's own Xinhua has also reported the outrageous attacks on journalists in TST.

    They quote Hong Kong's Chief Secretary Carrie Lam identifying the attackers as Occupy Central supporters...

    There goes the credibility of Xinhua...oops, except they don't exactly have much in the way of credibility to begin with.

    Our own authorities here in HK aren't much better in that regard. Security Chef Lai Tung-Kwok released an edited video purporting to show the violent behaviour of OC protesters, while not uttering a word about the violence meted out to the OC people by the pro-establisment thugs and triads:

    http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/a...esters-violent

    The clips appeared to show protesters trying to seize barricades, while officers grabbed protesters’ umbrellas and used pepper spray. In one clip, protesters appeared to be using foul language to abuse police in Mong Kok.
    Civic Party lawmaker Claudia Mo Man-ching questioned why the video didn’t include the police use of tear gas on September 28, or attacks on pro-democracy protesters by anti-Occupy gangs and suspected triad members.
    “Even in your video clip, [Occupy] protesters did not carry any weapons. All they have are umbrellas,” Mo noted.

    Look Mr Lai, Hong Kong people aren't stupid. They know full well what is going on and the way the OC movement have been subjected to verbal and physical abuse. Carrying on in your own version of reality really is not helpful in solving the issue at hand.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 27-10-2014 at 10:54 PM.
    drumbrake, Mefisto and cookie09 like this.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,711

    i have to say, i find it astonishing once again:

    the government, Beijing, everyone in big business has been vilifying, demonizing and attacking OC for a month now. in the last 10 days (which were probably the quietest since the start - ignoring the journalist attacks at a anti-rally for a second) the whole "HK is on the verge of a riot" has reached new levels if you believe the general media and government announcements. today you had this 'USA 12 step plan for a color revolution in HK' in The Standard. it's completely ridiculous and looks like pulling at straws when everything else fails.

    i am not saying that the OC/Pro-dems are doing a great PR job these days, but how low do they plan to go over at government house aka liaison office. do they really think that HK people are that stupid to believe their propaganda?

    Mefisto, Cho-man and 100LL like this.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    15,557

    First, let me make it clear, I am very much in the pro-democracy / pro occupy camp.

    But.

    It has now been a month.

    There is clearly fuck all action from the CCP / HK government.

    What is the end game for the organisers? I do sense a the tide turning against them at the moment, especially as this carries on. Maybe this was the CCP's strategy all along, just wait it out until the public generally get more and more frustrated with the protesters?

    Cho-man likes this.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    3,921
    Quote Originally Posted by pin:
    First, let me make it clear, I am very much in the pro-democracy / pro occupy camp.

    But.

    It has now been a month.

    There is clearly fuck all action from the CCP / HK government.

    What is the end game for the organisers? I do sense a the tide turning against them at the moment, especially as this carries on. Maybe this was the CCP's strategy all along, just wait it out until the public generally get more and more frustrated with the protesters?
    There is no end game for either side. Right now its simply an endurance contest. Each side is trying to out-wait the other, while society gradually simmer and boil (eventually). The OC movement is certainly not without faults, but I think more of the blame should fall on the government for this situation. It goes to show the level of obstinate "thick-headedness" with the government that they are determined to wait out the OC movement while not giving an inch at all (unless you consider a worthless piece of paper they call the supplementary report to the NPCSC as a real "compromise").

    The government at this point is not concerned with the impact this has on the rest of HK (increased polarization, eventual de-stability etc), but to claim victory. Yeah, they sure say the OC will have a bad impact on society, but are they really concerned with this impact? Nope. If the government really cared about the impact as they claimed, don't you think they would try to be more proactive in solving the crisis?

    This is the problem with siege mentality. In their defensiveness, the government has forgotten the point the OC protesters were trying to make and simply portray them as enemy to defeat at all cost.

    Why else would Chef Lai give such a warped view of the OC protest? The government is out of touch with reality. And that is worrying indeed.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 28-10-2014 at 12:22 PM.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sin bin
    Posts
    1,896
    Quote Originally Posted by pin:
    It has now been a month.

    There is clearly fuck all action from the CCP / HK government.

    What is the end game for the organisers?
    Cookie just listed some of the establishment's plans in action in the post above yours:

    the government, Beijing, everyone in big business has been vilifying, demonizing and attacking OC for a month now. in the last 10 days (which were probably the quietest since the start - ignoring the journalist attacks at a anti-rally for a second) the whole "HK is on the verge of a riot" has reached new levels if you believe the general media and government announcements.
    Their most obvious problem is that the actions based on intimidation, violence and People's Republic-style media warfare are only making them look silly, dishonest and totally out of touch instead of winning new believers to their side.

    Meanwhile they have made no effort to negotiate with the protesters for a solution. In the one long-delayed televised dressing-down session the gov't reps only regurgitated the Communist Party National People's Congress Standing Committee's liturgy on what HK people supposedly asked for through the sham consultation. Only one side came out looking like they were speaking on behalf of the public.

    Now they are in serious danger of overplaying their heavy hand of rule by law (instead of rule of law which would include aspects of morality, fairness and justice) and the negotiation through prosecution and persecution is helping even the eternal fence-sitters to finally form an opinion.

    The pan-democratic camp may be planning to pull out all the stops to achieve a non-binding referendum to "clarify" the results of the government's sham consultation exercise. If that was to become the single objective of the pro-democracy protests it would become almost impossible for the administration to deny it without losing whatever credibility they have left of representing HK instead of just running the front office on behalf of CCP pulling all the strings from their walled compounds.

    The problem is that the HK administration seems terminally unable to even admit that the unwashed masses really want some say in HK's governance. If they could muster the courage to send a consultation report genuinely reflecting the society's sentiments, maybe the more progressive elements in Beijing could also sway the NPCSC's revised ruling towards a more benevolent direction.
    Last edited by Mefisto; 28-10-2014 at 12:23 PM.
    Cho-man and Gatts like this.

Closed Thread
Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 10 ... LastLast