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Erwiana trial

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  1. #11

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    Unfortunately it is not limited to HK, also many cases in the middle east and elsewhere. I think the abusers should be imprisoned in the home country of the helper and their crimes made public to the other prisoners.


  2. #12

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    It is hard to believe there is not a great deal of truth in the claims being made. Unfortunately there will be a lot of she said v she said type of evidence along with the physical harm suffered. Is there enough evidence to convict beyond reasonable doubt for the worst crimes?

    Last edited by East_coast; 09-12-2014 at 08:07 PM.
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  3. #13

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    Definitely not a HK thing.

    Just the sad side of human beings - for some, as soon as they get in some sort of power position, they think they are above most basic human laws/behavior.


  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    I think the abusers should be imprisoned in the home country of the helper and their crimes made public to the other prisoners.
    Under what condition you believe the offender could be extradited? Can the law in that country even applied for crimes that happen outside their jurisdiction? Couldn't that mean that the offender had no case to answer?

    IMHO the law in HK works quite well.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Unfortunately it is not limited to HK, also many cases in the middle east and elsewhere. I think the abusers should be imprisoned in the home country of the helper and their crimes made public to the other prisoners.
    Definitely the Middle East is HELL on earth for ASIAN workers be it Construction / Domestic work etc
    A few nuclear bombs to wipe it off the face of the earth should be good

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    Definitely not a HK thing.

    Just the sad side of human beings - for some, as soon as they get in some sort of power position, they think they are above most basic human laws/behavior.
    That 'power position' might explain it, it's probably a very unique situation that cannot be compared to normal employer/employee relationships or to many other places/societies in the world.

    After all, we have several hundred thousand 'masters' ruling over their 'servants' unchecked in the privacy of their own home and the servants with very little legal and social rights to begin with. Again, a situation that can probably not be compared with normal employer/employee relationships. That the number of black sheep might be higher under these circumstances is not surprising.

    Kind of like slavery, where people are treated as property. Maybe that's why the agencies have a money back guarantee, unlimited replacements and reeducation if the don't behave as they should? Not surprised this raises some eye brows with Amnesty International and the rest of the world.

    We have a helper too, and I am surely not completely innocent since space is so limited around here :/ (not that my own room is much larger though).

    PS: a few years ago the agency of our very own helper (found via this website) kept her passport and tried to extort (remind her to pay) some illegal agency fee (way over what they are allowed to charge according to HK law). I had to go yell at some thug in TST (I recorded the conversation with my phone) to get her passport back and they never called since for the money. Report to the police didn't go anywhere... very first world indeed.
    Last edited by 100LL; 10-12-2014 at 11:50 AM.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by 100LL:
    That 'power position' might explain it, it's probably a very unique situation that cannot be compared to normal employer/employee relationships or to many other places/societies in the world.

    After all, we have several hundred thousand 'masters' ruling over their 'servants' unchecked in the privacy of their own home and the servants with very little legal and social rights to begin with. Again, a situation that can probably not be compared with normal employer/employee relationships. That the number of black sheep might be higher under these circumstances is not surprising.

    Kind of like slavery, where people are treated as property. Maybe that's why the agencies have a money back guarantee, unlimited replacements and reeducation if the don't behave as they should? Not surprised this raises some eye brows with Amnesty International and the rest of the world.

    We have a helper too, and I am surely not completely innocent since space is so limited around here :/ (not that my own room is much larger though).
    That power position exist pretty much everywhere sadly.

    From Singapore to HK to the Middle East to huge part of Africa and South America - where a dominant class uses "Helpers".

    I have seen example in Djibouti, Tunisia, HK, Singapore, Brazil for example....so really not unique to HK. a "simple" case of bad human behavior.

    This might be somewhat less (to be checked) of an issue in the west due to more strignent laws but I wouldnt even be that sure given that pretty much everyday you can open a newspaper and see a woman/man abused by another in the context of his/her work.

    Sad.

  8. #18

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    Is that also the case with say Mexicans helpers or nannies in the USA?

    Where I am from it's kind of unheard of. The only thing that would probably come close to the situation would be nurses for the elderly from say Poland (and I have heard of the occasional story that the elderly treat their care takers like sh*t so you might be completely right).

    Last edited by 100LL; 10-12-2014 at 11:58 AM.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    It is hard to believe there is not a great deal of truth in the claims being made. Unfortunately there will be a lot of she said v she said type of evidence along with the physical harm suffered. Is there enough evidence to convict beyond reasonable doubt for the worst crimes?
    I think it will ultimately comes down to the medical evidence, the bruises and the doctor's reports. That would either corroborate or debunk Erwiana's claims, and hence determines the guilt of her ex-employer.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by 100LL:
    Is that also the case with say Mexicans helpers or nannies in the USA?

    Where I am from it's kind of unheard of. The only thing that would probably come close to the situation would be nurses for the elderly from say Poland (and I have heard of the occasional story that the elderly treat their care takers like sh*t so you might be completely right).
    You come from the West (me too) and indeed we dont hear much of this.

    If you look at the list , I said bascially, Asia, Middle East, Africa and South America....not Europe/US/Australia/NZ.

    That said seems in the US there are cases too (no idea the numbers as compared to HK)
    Worker Abuse | Southern Poverty Law Center

    Just so we are very clear. HK has a major issue in dealing with FDH so I am not saying the HK system work I am just saying that this employement behavior is (sadly) not unique to HK and probably stem form many things (her own twisted mind and some regulations that need to be more strict for example - and many others)

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