Like Tree20Likes

HK’s water supply plans decades behind Singapore’s

Closed Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
  1. #21

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Cramped island
    Posts
    5,585
    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    Corrected it for you
    according to my friend, it is indeed voluntarily and most people went because they are curious how the XRL looks like.
    civil_servant likes this.

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    猴山
    Posts
    23,652
    Quote Originally Posted by freeier:
    look at these..
    高鐵西九站測過境壓力 港鐵500員工 練|即時新聞|港澳|on.cc東網
    https://hk.news.yahoo.com/%E5%82%B3%...092405838.html

    now, are these neutral report or don't you read some tones where the 200hkd is emphasized as something wrong ?
    I suspect many would jump at the chance. It does look like a PR failure for the company. Not lucky winners from trainspotters monthly. Offering reduced wages for this event that is so public seems a little short sighted. It should of been celebrated not made cheap given all the unnecessary waste. A mix of journalists, pro-authoritarian and pro-liberal politicians and kids with smiling faces. It should be just a very expensive train track but the pro-authoritarian have made it about how to set a precedent to bypass the basic law. Very sad.
    Gatts likes this.

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    12,323
    Quote Originally Posted by freeier:
    anyway if we are talking about water.. from day -5 (independence day minus maybe 5years) the guys that are expected to be in charge of singapore was already wary of water security in singapore. for the last 50 years singapore has been working on very hard to ensure water self sufficiency.. that includes not just water technology but also tonnes of others that i wldn't mention here.

    however, i kind of think there is something Singapore didn't plan properly.. i.e. Energy.
    all the water treatment facilities in singapore requires energy but singapore does not have energy self sufficiency. so technically even though water capacity can be achieved the energy required to produce the water might not be there.


    Hk has a huge hinterland supporting the water usage.. if HK goes into water treatment and desalination, these are the issues:
    - again, energy self sufficiency is lacking
    - and it seems to point towards a position where HK wants to be independent from the mainland.

    that's something i don't see the SAR government pursuing.
    Singapore gets water from Malaysia, a place they have a very uneasy relationship with and want to be self-sufficient.

    Hong Kong gets water from China, a place that owns them (even if we have an uneasy relationship). It's hard to say we should not trust China to send us water - either practically or politically. Reverse osmosis from seawater is horrendously expensive and also has extremely high energy requirements - both expensive and climate negative.

    It's not clear to me we are actually doing anything wrong here or that comparisons with Singapore are valid.

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Cramped island
    Posts
    5,585
    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    Singapore gets water from Malaysia, a place they have a very uneasy relationship with and want to be self-sufficient.

    Hong Kong gets water from China, a place that owns them (even if we have an uneasy relationship). It's hard to say we should not trust China to send us water - either practically or politically. Reverse osmosis from seawater is horrendously expensive and also has extremely high energy requirements - both expensive and climate negative.

    It's not clear to me we are actually doing anything wrong here or that comparisons with Singapore are valid.
    The actual water contract i think is between singapore and johor. And its actually a very tricky one commercially. Involves two way flows of water. Beneficiary to both singapore and johor (actually, especially johor) enormously. So commercially no reason for johor to want to terminate the agreement.

    Nevertheless, the 'security' issued comply Singapore to develop the other sources of water supply what are very energy consuming.. 1. creation of the large marina barrage reservoir; 2. Newwater (treatment of used water that are sent back to refill the reservoir); 3. desalination plant.

    Cost of these water are extremely high so happily the government of singapore use this excuse to charge singaporean the high cost of treated water, and in the meanwhile continue to use the low cost johor water to provide to the country.

    So very much, the water issue for singapore is different. Its not a commercial practical necessity as what was mentioned earlier.. In fact, from practical aspect Pahang (a state that is above johor) can also look at supplying water to singapore and i would believe their sultan is actually keen in the project from commercial reason.
    Then the issue becomes entirely security.

    For hk, the issue is entirely for commercial/practical reason. I would probably not call this 'water security' like what threaten singapore, but more of a 'water availability' in consideration of the huge amount of water usage for development. Then comparison seems not that fair.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,772

    For years there have been many concrete proposals for desalination plants in Hong Kong now from lawmakers in Hong Kong, but this has always been shot down by the usual Beijing collaborators. Hong Kong pays way way more money for its water from China then Singapore does from Malaysia, cannot pay on the basis of the level of water used but needs to buy it on basis of a total volume way above what is actually needed. On top of that Hong Kong still has to treat the water when it comes in.

    On top of that if there is any conflict with China the same beijing collaborators give the argument that one should not fight with China because without their water HK would be nowhere. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.


  6. #26

    Hong Kong had a desalination plant

    Hong Kong had a desalination plant years ago (Gold Coast housing estate is built on the site). it operated from 1975-1981. It was cheaper to import the water from China, so the plant was decommissioned and then demolished years later


  7. #27

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,772
    Quote Originally Posted by MrRotavator:
    Hong Kong had a desalination plant years ago (Gold Coast housing estate is built on the site). it operated from 1975-1981. It was cheaper to import the water from China, so the plant was decommissioned and then demolished years later
    Technology has caught up of course.

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Cramped island
    Posts
    5,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatts:
    Technology has caught up of course.
    gatts, are you trying to say that it is cheaper to desalinate water despite taking into account the extra amount of water one needs to pay on the bulk purchase basis ?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatts:
    Technology has caught up of course.
    Reverse Osmosis uses about 1/3 of the energy of flash evaporation, but i doubt that it's cheaper than buying Chinese river water.

  10. #30

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,707
    https://www.wsd.gov.hk/en/core-busin...ant/index.html

    they a;lso have a desalination unit at the NT turd burner gasification plant (because they forgto to plan with WSD for a mains supply)