Transgender men fail in legal bid to be listed as male on HKID card

[shri]

New CFA ruling ...

The Court of Final Appeal on Monday ruled that the policy of barring transgender people from changing their gender shown on Hong Kong Identity Cards unless they undergo full sex reassignment surgery violates their rights and is unconstitutional.

A panel of five judges unanimously sided with appeals launched by transgender activists Henry Tse and another appellant identified as "Q" and quashed the Commissioner of Registration's decision to refuse their applications to change their gender on their ID cards.

Thirty-one-year-old Tse and thirty-year-old Q were both diagnosed with gender identity disorder. Tse, who filed the legal challenge in 2017, said transgender people were "prohibited from full participation in life" due to this policy, which can also cause safety concerns.

Hong Kong activists have long argued for self-declared sex markers on identification cards, with the push gaining traction after legal changes in Taiwan, Argentina and other places.

Transgender rights were last debated at the Court of Final Appeal nearly a decade ago, with judges affirming the right of transgender people who have undergone surgery to marry.

But little progress has been made since then to change the city's laws to further protect transgender rights.

https://www.thestandard.com.hk/break...tion/4/199993/

[FrancisX]

Toilets are off topic, but you are correct that in the UK public toilets have all but disappeared due to austerity cuts.

I know I said I would get leave this thread but I have a question.

A feminine looking, small, transgender woman (and there are plenty) would according to biology and science be required to use the male toilets because that is the way she was born. Do you think she would feel safe or be safe in the male toilets and does that not concern you as well? Would she be safe in a male prison?

Toilets I don't care about - piss in the streets if that's your preference - but for prison, what about a small, feminine looking man? Would he be safe? Why does everything change because that person self declares they are a woman? If you are a biological man you go to general population in a men's prison, until such time that they introduce trans-exclusive wings. It's not difficult. Exceptions of course for anyone who has is post-op.

[sarsi]

This is one of the reasons why I dislike the new age labelling shit of lgbtqixxxx - fixing gender issues at the labelling level does nothing for the real underlying issues.

We are outed every time we present our ID," Tse told AFP before the ruling.

Why can't your sex at birth be on the ID together with the gender? It is vital info for unexpected med operations and vital info for lots of ppl who are choosing partners based on it. Not disclosing it on purpose is fudging it on purpose like it's not important but of course it is, that's why it's so important for the transgender to want to disassociate from it. Fudging this up is what they see as the nearest quickest solution to the prejudice they face which is a v depressing reality.

[Beanieskis]

Is gender on your HKID? It's not on mine. What am I missing?

[qhank]

Is gender on your HKID? It's not on mine. What am I missing?

It's right next to the DOB.

[Beanieskis]

It's right next to the DOB.

[SirNotAppearing]

The neuroscience behind transgenderism is complex and trying to force discussion into that regarding toilets and prisons is both ignorant and insensitive.

https://youtu.be/8QScpDGqwsQ

[mrgoodkat]

Is gender on your HKID? It's not on mine. What am I missing?

No, it isn't. Sex is on your HKID. Makes sense you only get to change it after sex reassignment surgery.

Hong Kong activists have long argued for self-declared sex markers on identification cards

It's called an identity card, not a self-identity card.

https://www.immd.gov.hk/images/servi...rmation_en.jpg

[sarsi]

There is one angle to this that I haven't gotten comfy with. The justification is that showing the sex birth on ID is an obstacle from full participation in life. The ID presents a different layer of issues, not the same as daily social prejudice they might face.. so what we're doing is we allow change of the sex birth (full reassignment or not) specifically so the ppl to whom it will matter don't get to know it.. I can't get fully behind this. I am anti prejudice and equal rights but this should not be done if the end effect is prejudicing another group..

[FrancisX]

The neuroscience behind transgenderism is complex and trying to force discussion into that regarding toilets and prisons is both ignorant and insensitive.

https://youtu.be/8QScpDGqwsQ

It's not that complex. Have penis - men's prison. Done. Actually, I think the future needs to be dedicated trans wings, but for now you're going to have to stick to what biology gave you. We need to put women's rights first.

Amazing to see equality so quickly become privilege.

I'm very open to people changing their legal sex after deep psychological consultation, but self ID is a minefield for abuse - see Scotland for a perfectly timed example.