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Joshua Wong, what's your POV?

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  1. #1

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    Joshua Wong, what's your POV?

    I ask this because I innocently posted something positive about, Joshua Wong..... As he was being interviewed on German Television and posted the clip on my facebook recently, because I quite like the young man's fortitude and him globally putting a public face to Hong Kong's universal suffrage ambitions. One of my more mature HK long termer Brit mates who writes promotional tat for the big corporates of HK, absolutely spat venom with a nice little tirade about how this 22 year old kid is a traitor and American sock puppet, blah blah blardy blah. lol Not the first time I've upset him, but usually I did it deliberately as a form of bored entertainment, I didn't even have to try this time, as I wasn't trying to bait him, or be provocative.....

    So, what do you folks think ? is Joshua Wong a traitor or is he something more influential in the eyes of the young, that some long termer expat's, seem more worried about rocking the boat of the HK establishment that has greatly benefited them financially, just cant handle ?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    I ask this because I innocently posted something positive about, Joshua Wong..... As he was being interviewed on German Television and posted the clip on my facebook recently, because I quite like the young man's fortitude and him globally putting a public face to Hong Kong's universal suffrage ambitions. One of my more mature HK long termer Brit mates who writes promotional tat for the big corporates of HK, absolutely spat venom with a nice little tirade about how this 22 year old kid is a traitor and American sock puppet, blah blah blardy blah. lol Not the first time I've upset him, but usually I did it deliberately as a form of bored entertainment, I didn't even have to try this time, as I wasn't trying to bait him, or be provocative.....

    So, what do you folks think ? is Joshua Wong a traitor or is he something more influential in the eyes of the young, that some long termer expat's, seem more worried about rocking the boat of the HK establishment that has greatly benefited them financially, just cant handle ?
    He certainly doesn't do it for the money.

    Without people willing to stand-up to the administration the rate of decline would be much faster.

    - Article 23
    - National Education
    - 8/31 dictat

    would all of passed. If these had of passed this forum would not exist - quite a few comments criticize the government, education would be quite different and we would have a fairly elected puppet with a real mandate to enact faster and deeper reform.

    Without people like Mr Wong being able to stand-up and push back HK would of declined rather than stood still.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:

    Without people like Mr Wong being able to stand-up and push back HK would of declined rather than stood still.
    No argument from me, it came as a bit of a surprise for me, that my very well fed long term HK expat mate who has been involved in the HK media establishment for quite a lengthy period of time, had such harsh words to say about the young bloke, Mr Wong.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    So, what do you folks think ? is Joshua Wong a traitor or is he something more influential in the eyes of the young, that some long termer expat's, seem more worried about rocking the boat of the HK establishment that has greatly benefited them financially, just cant handle ?
    Every generation needs a leader to speak for them. This young man is a leader in the making. There are usually young leaders on both sides which appeal to the demographics they lead.

    Older generation who has "made it", specially the colonial types in HK seem to forget that they have also had their leaders who took them through troubled times back home. They're thinking about themselves like they matter. They think everything else is a conspiracy and tend to use every low ball argument that they can - on both sides (pro and against any future development)

    They franky do not matter and need to let the next generations take over and define what their society, what their lives will be.

    They forget what troubles they and their parents had to go through to get where they are today.

    We (as in all generations) are at the day, products of a "random walk" - those interesting twists and turns, small and big events that took place decades and centuries ago. The ones that did well in life - in intellectual, health and wealth terms are ones that adapted and changed with the times.

    I can imagine a old guy going off on some random young man who went out on a journey to try and prove that the world was not flat.

    Bottom line - as much as I look I do not see a charismatic leader who can speak to me from the side that Joshua does not represent. They cannot debate at a level where I can understand or empathise with them.

    As far as your friend is concerned - been there and seen a few like him. There are many that still think ending the Raj was a bad f'ing idea for India and many wise and rich locals who think Tianamen Sq was an American / British conspiracy.
    Last edited by shri; 13-09-2019 at 08:38 AM.
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    (Sorry - had to edit that post a fair bit - kept posting in between edits).

    Change happens, people resist it and push it. One side does well or may be not - depends if they adopt or not.

    Some more specific to Joshua Wong and HK.

    Some middle ground has to be found between the establishment - rich with means and the younger people who will take their "investments" (not money, but time, values and intellectual contributions) and use them as they wish for the betterment of their generation.

    Without a dialog between the two sides - we're not going to see progress.

    Joshua - if not physically at least ideologically and intellectually represents many of the younger generation.

    I'd just love for Li Ka Shing or someone who is willing to consider what the next 10-20-50-100 years would look like for HK and China and attempt to have a tea or a dinner with a young leader. Just to listen.

    Last edited by shri; 13-09-2019 at 07:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    (Sorry - had to edit that post a fair bit - kept posting in between edits).

    Change happens, people resist it and push it. One side does well another if they do not adopt does not do that well.

    Some more specific to Joshua Wong and HK.

    Some middle ground has to be found between the establishment - rich with means and the younger people who will take their "investments" (not money, but time, values and intellectual contributions) and use them as they wish for the betterment of their generation.

    Without a dialog between the two sides - we're not going to see progress.

    Joshua - if not physically at least ideologically and intellectually represents many of the younger generation.

    I'd just love for Li Ka Shing or someone who is willing to consider what the next 10-20-50-100 years would look like for HK and China and attempt to have a tea or a dinner with a young leader. Just to listen.
    What do the young have to bring to the table to give-up in a compromise?

    - Good paying jobs - nah Grad pay is the same now as 20 years ago
    - Security of owning a home - nah, they never will
    - Right to vote for who they want - nah, ot since mid reading powers were given to civil servants
    - Right to have a functioning legislature - nah, Carrie took away their last tool, the ability to filibuster
    - Right to a good education - nah, HK have restricted university places

    Yes society does't like to see violence but what can the young compromise on?
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  7. #7

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    Some forget its a dialog and think its a platform to shout from.

    With context of this Joshua - right now there is ZERO dialog from the other side with him.

    Have the types who sit around and tear apart these young characters who are protesting (or singing the National anthem at IFC) sat down with the other side for a drink or a coffee or a dinner and attempted conversation? Nah...

    Even a random 2-3 min conversation with your starbucks barista who is on a smoke break will give you more of an insight on whats going on (without knowing what side they're on) than repeating whatever you've heard from a friend of a friend of a friend who has a special connection with another powerful friend.
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  8. #8

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    What do the young have to bring to the table to give-up in a compromise?
    Asking or wanting someone to give-up something rarely starts a dialog.

    People switch jobs / ideologies / investments / whatever not because they have something to give up. They switch because they have something to gain by making the change.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    Every generation needs a leader to speak for them. This young man is a leader in the making. There are usually young leaders on both sides which appeal to the demographics they lead.

    Older generation who has "made it", specially the colonial types in HK seem to forget that they have also had their leaders who took them through troubled times back home. They're thinking about themselves like they matter. They think everything else is a conspiracy and tend to use every low ball argument that they can - on both sides (pro and against any future development)

    They franky do not matter and need to let the next generations take over and define what their society, what their lives will be.

    They forget what troubles they and their parents had to go through to get where they are today.

    We (as in all generations) are at the day, products of a "random walk" - those interesting twists and turns, small and big events that took place decades and centuries ago. The ones that did well in life - in intellectual, health and wealth terms are ones that adapted and changed with the times.

    I can imagine a old guy going off on some random young man who went out on a journey to try and prove that the world was not flat.

    Bottom line - as much as I look I do not see a charismatic leader who can speak to me from the side that Joshua represents. They cannot debate at a level where I can understand or empathise with them.

    As far as your friend is concerned - been there and seen a few like him. There are many that still think ending the Raj was a bad f'ing idea for India and many wise and rich locals who think Tianamen Sq was an American / British conspiracy.
    Very profound for this time in the morning Shri, but also very true.

    There are some who were either never idealistic when young or have forgotten it. Idealism is not based on material possessions, wealth or pure rational thought. To quote a Filipino hero, a quote which is perhaps appropriate for the youth of Hong Kong at the moment, "better to live in hell under the Filipino than to live in heaven under the American".
    cookie09 likes this.

  10. #10

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    Very profound for this time in the morning Shri, but also very true.
    I've scheduled my arsehole persona to take over at 10AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    There are some who were either never idealistic when young or have forgotten it.
    The mediocre can breed, the rest can attempt change or lead.

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