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Hong Kong's steady descent into a police state

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  1. #121

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    “Police did not block any firefighter, first-aider or ambulance from taking the injured away from the scene,” [Senior Superintendent (Operations) of Kowloon East Suzette Foo] said. “This is a fact, and was confirmed by the Fire Services Department.”

    Versus

    The Fire Services Department (FSD) said blocked roads in the vicinity of a car park in Tseung Kwan O, where a university student was critically injured after apparently falling from height, delayed its paramedics by several minutes, RTHKS reports.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellenna:
    About the Hong Kong university student injured during car park fall, “Kowloon East Superintendent Wu Ka-yan said that Chow likely fell between 12.45am and 1am but that his officers did not realise the accident happened until they saw firefighters applying first aid in the car park at 1.05am.”

    I do not understand how no police there noticed this happening for a quarter of an hour. After all, for their use of “appropriate force” they claim they can tell who is a violent protester and who is just a stander-by. Oh wait, no, in Prince Edward MTR station it was hard to tell them apart…

    So the police knows what’s happening, doesn’t know what’s happening, or does not see what’s happening; all depending on what is the situation.

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagulls!:
    The hooligans in Hong Kong are pretty hardcore and require more forceful measures.
    In your mind does these "forceful measures" include the unlawful police brutalities, beating up protesters after arrests, not displaying any identification numbers, working openly with triads, random arrests of peaceful protesters/onlookers, declaring lawful assemblies as "illegal", firing burning teargas canisters directly at people,... I could go on and about such well-documented unlawful behavior. Or do you only single out anti-CCP protesters?

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsianXpat0:
    https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-by-high-court

    What odds do we lay on getting a similar ruling in Hong Kong?
    Ah, The Extinction Rebellion, or who I call, the 21st century's, Army of the 12 Monkey's. lol 24 years after the sci-fi movie, we're actually seeing aspects of it happening in real life, today. cool huh
    Last edited by Skyhook; 07-11-2019 at 11:13 AM.

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellenna:
    “Police did not block any firefighter, first-aider or ambulance from taking the injured away from the scene,” [Senior Superintendent (Operations) of Kowloon East Suzette Foo] said. “This is a fact, and was confirmed by the Fire Services Department.”

    Versus

    The Fire Services Department (FSD) said blocked roads in the vicinity of a car park in Tseung Kwan O, where a university student was critically injured after apparently falling from height, delayed its paramedics by several minutes, RTHKS reports.
    Well if the reported wording is correct, then this time they would technically only be misleading rather than lying. Stopping the ambulance from reaching the casualty is not the same as blocking the removal of the injured from the scene. I suppose you could argue tear-gassing, if it took place, could also be worded as "facilitating the removal of the casualty from the scene", even if the context was shooting tear gas at the ambulance to encourage it to leave more quickly.
    Baklava likes this.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagulls!:
    In the UK or US, citizens don't throw petrol bombs into the metro station or at police stations.

    The hooligans in Hong Kong are pretty hardcore and require more forceful measures.
    In the US and UK, the government doesn't selectively condemn violence on its own supporters and abet violence inflicted on its political opponents. In the US and UK, the police are relatively even-handed when dealing with complaints about criminal behaviour and don't ignore them based on the political beliefs of the informant.
    TheBrit, Mrs. Jones, Gatts and 4 others like this.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paxbritannia:
    In the US and UK, the government doesn't selectively condemn violence on its own supporters and abet violence inflicted on its political opponents. In the US and UK, the police are relatively even-handed when dealing with complaints about criminal behaviour and don't ignore them based on the political beliefs of the informant.
    yup, of course...
    i'm not condoning any police brutality but blindly glorifying one side and only pointing finger to the other side is simply not right IMHO

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-44214748


    https://time.com/5628206/police-shoo...owlton-garner/

    According to Mapping Police Violence—one of the few groups that tracks deadly police encounters in the absence of a comprehensive national database—law enforcement officers in the U.S. intentionally or accidentally killed more than 6,800 civilians between 2013 and 2018. Other groups and media that track data report similar figures. In 2017 and 2018, KilledbyPolice.net said more than 2,300 people were shot and killed by police, and the Washington Post[ recorded 1,978 instances in the same two-year period. Among deaths reported by Mapping Police Violence, an officer was charged with a crime in 1.7% of the cases
    ]Federal prosecutors on Tuesday announced they would not bring civil rights charges against Daniel Pantaleo, the white officer who held Garner down in July 2014 as the 43-year-old father of six repeatedly gasped “I can’t breathe.” While calling Garner’s death a tragedy, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District, Richard P. Donoghue, said the evidence “does not establish beyond a reasonable doubt that Officer Pantaleo acted in willful violation of federal law.” A grand jury had also previously declined to indict Pantaleo. In May, the officer faced an internal NYPD disciplinary trial before an administrative judge who has not yet delivered a verdict to the police commissioner. Pantaleo continues to collect his salary of $98,000 on desk duty.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy SNK:
    yup, of course...
    i'm not condoning any police brutality but blindly glorifying one side and only pointing finger to the other side is simply not right IMHO

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-44214748


    https://time.com/5628206/police-shoo...owlton-garner/
    I think we can agree such incidents take place in many parts of the world. The difference is that such behaviour appears to be being officially condoned and excused in Hong Kong, and a large part of the population is being exposed to it. I won't comment on whether it is more or less outrageous when this type of policing takes place on a majority or minority of the population, and in the context of protests. You have to concede that the allegations of irregular policing are pretty widespread, and cover a wide range of abuses and victims, plus their attitude of being victims when being caught doesn't play well.

    https://coconuts.co/hongkong/news/ex...ears-incident/

    By denying the ability to identify the guilty parties, and denying all wrongdoing in even the most egregious cases, rather than these being simply isolated incidents of rogue agents going unpunished, aren't the entire government and police force complicit in the abuses?

    I guess at the end of the day one has to ask if it is fair to contrast the acts of a small minority in a self-identifying group versus a standing force of personnel paid by the public to enforce the law impartially and with an identifiable hierarchy of leadership and recruitment.

    I feel the views of a moderate member of the pro-establishment (who probably self-identifies as a centrist) might be relevant here.

    Rioters or freedom fighters?
    Last edited by AsianXpat0; 07-11-2019 at 04:30 PM.

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy SNK:
    yup, of course...
    i'm not condoning any police brutality but blindly glorifying one side and only pointing finger to the other side is simply not right IMHO

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-44214748


    https://time.com/5628206/police-shoo...owlton-garner/
    You really think that China treats black people better? LOL!

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paxbritannia:
    You really think that China treats black people better? LOL!
    They don't get shot at least.
    aceofangel likes this.

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsianXpat0:
    I think we can agree such incidents take place in many parts of the world.
    This I agree. But some people seems to be in denial by saying this
    In the US and UK, the police are relatively even-handed when dealing with complaints about criminal behaviour
    I agree the police brutality must be investigated, and they did in the past even though they did not announce it in the large banner but at the end of the day, the guilty is guilty even after he retired.
    https://coconuts.co/hongkong/news/ex...ears-incident/

    Look at the article about Daniel Pantaelo, no charge whatsoever after 5 years - what a relatively even-handed case

    is there any case in the other side of the world, where police officers denied orders from their government and/or superior and put down their weapons and join the protesters?
    I might know it known as a coup.

    any place in the world where the police officers would just watch the protesters vandalizing public properties for the sake of "democracy" or venting anger?

    enlighten me, may be my google search is not accurate enough

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