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Hong Kong's steady descent into a police state

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  1. #131

  2. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy SNK:
    This I agree. But some people seems to be in denial by saying this


    I agree the police brutality must be investigated, and they did in the past even though they did not announce it in the large banner but at the end of the day, the guilty is guilty even after he retired.
    https://coconuts.co/hongkong/news/ex...ears-incident/

    Look at the article about Daniel Pantaelo, no charge whatsoever after 5 years - what a relatively even-handed case

    is there any case in the other side of the world, where police officers denied orders from their government and/or superior and put down their weapons and join the protesters?
    I might know it known as a coup.

    any place in the world where the police officers would just watch the protesters vandalizing public properties for the sake of "democracy" or venting anger?

    enlighten me, may be my google search is not accurate enough
    The case where one police officer was convicted can be considered lucky, as there was video evidence, and the IPCC barely managed a majority to send it back to CAPO twice to insist on investigation/prosecution. Now that they can't even identify officers, good luck with that!

    is there any case in the other side of the world, where police officers denied orders from their government and/or superior and put down their weapons and join the protesters?
    I might know it known as a coup.
    I don't think this is actually what the public expects, though many of us might hope for it given the widespread feeling the government is at fault. I agree it is hoping for too much even for truly neutral members of the police force.

    any place in the world where the police officers would just watch the protesters vandalizing public properties for the sake of "democracy" or venting anger?
    Actually most reasonable observers aren't expecting this. If you have looked at the copious evidence of outrageous police behaviour, it largely consists of 1. Beating the arrested 2. Disproportionate use of force 3. Attacking and/or arresting non-violent protesters 4. Attacking and/or arresting journalists/passers-by/residents/legislators/etc.
    Even where they are arresting parties guilty of criminal acts, the public does not expect the police to mete out rough treatment to vent their frustrations, but I think if you have observed their behaviour, it goes way way beyond that, to beating people innocent of any crimes. Sympathisers of the protests may not want to see protesters arrested, but it's fair enough if the police arrest them if and when they are caught committing crimes. What I don't think the general public can accept is indiscriminate violence from the police force, and unfortunately there have been far too many instances of these.
    TheBrit, William06, Gatts and 4 others like this.

  3. #133

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    Lie after lie after lie. Proven a lie by video. And people still wonder why HKers have no more trust left in the police.
    https://twitter.com/rachel_cheung1/s...511972353?s=21


  4. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsianXpat0:
    The case where one police officer was convicted can be considered lucky, as there was video evidence, and the IPCC barely managed a majority to send it back to CAPO twice to insist on investigation/prosecution. Now that they can't even identify officers, good luck with that!


    I don't think this is actually what the public expects, though many of us might hope for it given the widespread feeling the government is at fault. I agree it is hoping for too much even for truly neutral members of the police force.


    Actually most reasonable observers aren't expecting this. If you have looked at the copious evidence of outrageous police behaviour, it largely consists of 1. Beating the arrested 2. Disproportionate use of force 3. Attacking and/or arresting non-violent protesters 4. Attacking and/or arresting journalists/passers-by/residents/legislators/etc.
    Even where they are arresting parties guilty of criminal acts, the public does not expect the police to mete out rough treatment to vent their frustrations, but I think if you have observed their behaviour, it goes way way beyond that, to beating people innocent of any crimes. Sympathisers of the protests may not want to see protesters arrested, but it's fair enough if the police arrest them if and when they are caught committing crimes. What I don't think the general public can accept is indiscriminate violence from the police force, and unfortunately there have been far too many instances of these.
    First of all, the main reason i put my opinion here was because i disagree with one poster glorifying other countries' police treatment while it is not 100% true. i called that bias.
    second, I do believe and agree, police actions must be investigated, and also protesters'.

    Sympathisers of the protests may not want to see protesters arrested, but it's fair enough if the police arrest them if and when they are caught committing crimes.
    can you suggest how this could happen?
    "ok boys, party is over, everyone heading to the nearest police station. one by one now. oh wait, one of the demand is full amnesty/unconditional release of the protesters "

    i said it many times before, if you want to fix something, get inside and get involved. if the police force is bad at the moment, encourage the youth to join the force, make changes from inside.
    imagine if 1,000 or 2,000 young people join each year, may be in the next 10-20 years we can have the police force who would be on protesters' side

  5. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy SNK:
    i said it many times before, if you want to fix something, get inside and get involved. if the police force is bad at the moment, encourage the youth to join the force, make changes from inside.
    imagine if 1,000 or 2,000 young people join each year, may be in the next 10-20 years we can have the police force who would be on protesters' side
    A) All evidence shows that there is a pro-CCP culture in the police force, do you really think anyone with free thinking principles would be made to feel welcome or pass background checks in the police force as it is today. Please read some interviews with ex-cops.

    B) We don't need police who are "on protester side" as you put it, as that would be bad as well. We need police who can uphold the law neutrally without political bias, and can respect and uphold the law themselves. Both are not being done based on the current facts.

  6. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatts:
    A) All evidence shows that there is a pro-CCP culture in the police force, do you really think anyone with free thinking principles would be made to feel welcome or pass background checks in the police force as it is today. Please read some interviews with ex-cops.

    B) We don't need police who are "on protester side" as you put it, as that would be bad as well. We need police who can uphold the law neutrally without political bias, and can respect and uphold the law themselves. Both are not being done based on the current facts.
    so do you have any suggestion to "clean" the force?
    fire everyone? who should join the force?

  7. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy SNK:
    so do you have any suggestion to "clean" the force?
    fire everyone? who should join the force?
    First of all an independent investigation could do lots of good. Also properly investigate and charge all officers involved in the the triad collusion in connection with the Yuen Long Terror Attack. New, impartial management could solve a lot through internal discipline: suspend anyone involved in beating protesters after arrest, discipline anyone labeling protesters as "cockroaches" or other dehumanizing behavior. Have officers display their correct identification numbers, and not shine laser lights at the press in order to escape their wrongdoing. I mean this is just a start but it could help immensely to try and restore HK peoples trust in police, currently at zero.
    AsianXpat0 and MatthieuTofu like this.

  8. #138

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    so do you have any suggestion to "clean" the force?
    fire everyone? who should join the force?
    Put the fear of getting sacked and jailed for criminal-ish conduct back into the minds of the force.

    There is a growing theory that it is there is a lack of discipline in the force, because literally nothing will be investigated, charges from the DoJ's side will be watered down etc.

    Review of general orders, specifically to see if some of them have been overengineered over the last few years. Do they work in a modern community police environment. Educating the force on what the orders really mean.

    A lot can be done ... needs to be done.

    Anyone should feel like they can join the force - many sections of society (including minorities) feel that they do not belong, will never be accepted as a part of the force.

  9. #139

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    Great!
    police force needs to be disciplined from inside and more people needs to be involved in joining the force, including the minorities.
    in the past, being a police officers are the last thing young people would do. just like the last resort when no other jobs suits them or no school would accept them. some rather being unemployed than being a police officer . the job is too hard, the money not worth it, long hour, etc etc
    no wonder we have such "quality" in the force.


  10. #140

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