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$2 Subsidy Scheme / Statutory Holiday handouts...

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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri
    Statutory holidays to reflect public holidays. Not sure if it covers helpers too.. just saying..

    https://twitter.com/damon_pang/statu...90523640053760
    Agreed if it goes through it would make a huge difference to helpers as I believe they get statutory only holiday : unfortunately the wording by Lam leaves a lot of wiggle room to get out of doing this before the end of this century anyway

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by hongkong7
    You left out the huge amount spent on the bridge to nowhere on the right side of you. Equation
    Very true.

    But even that could probably fit into the "corruption" for the needy (corporations) aka "wasteful" government spending on absolute garbage projects to benefit the friends of big business... aka greasing the wheels of "industry."
    hongkong7 likes this.

  3. #13

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    Bridge building is discrete wealth transfer.


  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthieuTofu
    Still wondering why it can’t be free like in Macau for senior citizens. If you’re gonna do something at least go the entire way! It’s not like money is something that’s lacking (if we don’t build the Lantau ecological disaster).

    Also the $2 measure is good but it’s mostly done because it’s something that pro establishment voters can easily notice and well retaining their votes in exchange.
    It's either 10 billion for the elderly or 10 billion for the Ocean Park. Not a difficult decision for our government to make.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri
    Lets not insult the elderly and their intelligence. The people who are going to vote one way or another are not going to be influenced by this. Just like the folks who don't take a second and say ... "you know whatever the politics - this might be a good thing for some people".
    Not really, some need to be given a Sealy mattress or need to be physically dragged to a polling station to vote.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri
    Bridge building is discrete wealth transfer.
    If you can see it from space it is not very discrete.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthieuTofu
    Not really, some need to be given a Sealy mattress or need to be physically dragged to a polling station to vote.
    Selective shit... Are you trying to say that the elderly are stupid and corrupt as a generation? They are not more politically aware today than they were six months ago?

    What was grandma Wong paid with?

    Look, I have complete appreciation for your posts, but not every thing needs to be framed cynically.
    AsianXpat0 and TigerSun like this.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast
    If you can see it from space it is not very discrete.
    Hard to see money transfers from space.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri
    Selective shit... Are you trying to say that the elderly are stupid and corrupt as a generation? They are not more politically aware today than they were six months ago?

    What was grandma Wong paid with?

    Look, I have complete appreciation for your posts, but not every thing needs to be framed cynically.
    Frankly, the extension of the $2 scheme to 60+ y.o. is a distraction from raising the CSSA age from 60 to 65. I'm not saying they are a stupid generation, but it's pretty likely that many will not be aware that the CSSA age is going up (I wouldn't have either very personally) and would be happy that they can enjoy cheaper bus fares for 5 more years of their life. It's pure politics and I'd agree that they are taking advantage of an age segment that in exchange would be more likely to vote for them (think FTU and their 'labour union' position even though they are against collective bargaining, etc...). If it's not about retaining voters from an age sector they still control (more or less) they would have given students half price on all public transport like they do on the MTR currently, or freezing MTR fare.

    I don't blame the government on this measure, they are being strategic: why help people who won't show appreciation for you in return (or at least be more complacent)? This is just like in Singapore where GMCs and SMCs that voted for opposition parties are 'punished' by the govt for having voted the way they voted.

    This is the key part of what she said in this regard:
    Lam said the government's sole aim is to improve the livelihoods of disadvantaged residents and the proposals are not a response to the city's ongoing anti-government protests. She added that if it wasn't for the unrest, the administration could have had more time to "think faster" and more thoroughly.
    Obviously this is a last ditch move to try to prove to consolidate what little support she has left. It's not like she really wanted to do this (ordered by the new guy at Sai Wan probably) as these changes have been stalling in back and forth discussions for years. I have nothing against the elderly but when you're 82 y.o collecting cardboard on the street all day making a mere $30 ish per day someone giving you an extra subsidy will get your vote. This is how the DAB/FTU excels in this kind of dynamic, lunar new year parties and banquets for the neighborhood, a chance to connect with someone, a few small gifts to make you feel that you are being taken care of. Democracy and the various freedoms (press, expression, etc...) are a far flung and unneeded ideals. These are people who may not have been taught these ideals, they've only been taught to work to sustain their family. This is where the pro-Democracy parties fail (apart from the ADPL in Sham Shui Po and the NWSC in Kwai Tsing), you can't campaign and win votes simply on these ideals in these demographics, you need actual livelihood policies that you can explain and communicate to them. If I was 67 and leaning pro-Establishment or even just neutral and trying to survive on the subsidies I get, $2 per train journey would be an enormous gift and i'd probably vote for them in exchange.

    So once again when i talk about them getting Sealy mattresses in exchange for their vote, I'm not blaming them. It's bribery but why wouldn't you accept it when you're in need? I'd rather blame the people bribing the voters for actually handing out freebies.
    Coolboy and Paxbritannia like this.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthieuTofu
    Frankly, the extension of the $2 scheme to 60+ y.o. is a distraction from raising the CSSA age from 60 to 65. I'm not saying they are a stupid generation, but it's pretty likely that many will not be aware that the CSSA age is going up (I wouldn't have either very personally) and would be happy that they can enjoy cheaper bus fares for 5 more years of their life. It's pure politics and I'd agree that they are taking advantage of an age segment that in exchange would be more likely to vote for them (think FTU and their 'labour union' position even though they are against collective bargaining, etc...). If it's not about retaining voters from an age sector they still control (more or less) they would have given students half price on all public transport like they do on the MTR currently, or freezing MTR fare.

    I don't blame the government on this measure, they are being strategic: why help people who won't show appreciation for you in return (or at least be more complacent)? This is just like in Singapore where GMCs and SMCs that voted for opposition parties are 'punished' by the govt for having voted the way they voted.

    This is the key part of what she said in this regard:

    Obviously this is a last ditch move to try to prove to consolidate what little support she has left. It's not like she really wanted to do this (ordered by the new guy at Sai Wan probably) as these changes have been stalling in back and forth discussions for years. I have nothing against the elderly but when you're 82 y.o collecting cardboard on the street all day making a mere $30 ish per day someone giving you an extra subsidy will get your vote. This is how the DAB/FTU excels in this kind of dynamic, lunar new year parties and banquets for the neighborhood, a chance to connect with someone, a few small gifts to make you feel that you are being taken care of. Democracy and the various freedoms (press, expression, etc...) are a far flung and unneeded ideals. These are people who may not have been taught these ideals, they've only been taught to work to sustain their family. This is where the pro-Democracy parties fail (apart from the ADPL in Sham Shui Po and the NWSC in Kwai Tsing), you can't campaign and win votes simply on these ideals in these demographics, you need actual livelihood policies that you can explain and communicate to them. If I was 67 and leaning pro-Establishment or even just neutral and trying to survive on the subsidies I get, $2 per train journey would be an enormous gift and i'd probably vote for them in exchange.

    So once again when i talk about them getting Sealy mattresses in exchange for their vote, I'm not blaming them. It's bribery but why wouldn't you accept it when you're in need? I'd rather blame the people bribing the voters for actually handing out freebies.
    All your points have some validity, but I think his main point was that the elderly aren’t monolithic, and that this transparent effort will be seen through by a good deal of them, so there isn’t a need to be particularly overexcited by it.

    They can pocket the “bribery” and still rightly attribute it to the protesters getting them to move on social issues (though not the primary aim”, or they can continue to be mistakenly grateful to the government, but that bloc was already lost before this anyway.
    MatthieuTofu, Coolboy and shri like this.

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