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The decline of Hong Kong

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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevil_666:
    You've got to be kidding. This is nearly a quarter century. Look at what China has achieved during this time.
    Wow nearly a quarter of a century! Nothing even in human terms. You don't think, just for example, that South America is still impacted by its Spanish colonial past or India by its British history?

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboy:
    The root problem was that Britian governed HK as a colony. When China recovered HK, it inherited the colonial structure and continue to rule HK in some way as a colony.
    Two main steps at which Britain made mistakes regarding HK's future:

    1: Only leasing the NT for 99 years. They did the same with Kowloon, originally also leased for 99 years, but then pushed China to accept perpetual takeover of Kowloon. No matter what you think about the Brits as colonialists - renting land where people live and incorporate that into your territory for a limited amount of time is always a stupid idea. 99 years seems long in the moment, but you'll affect people's life in 2-3 generations in a very direct yet completely unpredictable way. In the end, the 99 years lease led to a slightly hastened return of HK to China. If there would not have been this 97 deadline, they might have hold on to it for a longer while and then Tiannanmen would have changed the outcome.

    2: Not giving HK democracy after the second world war. In the 80s China objected to that in HK. However, if they would have turned HK more democratic in the 50s or 60s, China probably would have been too self-centered to really do anything about it. I think HKers would have been able to live democracy back then. Turning a full democracy into the chinese dictatorship straight away would have been much more difficult than passing a colony from one master to the next.
    Coolboy and timonoj like this.

  3. #33

    Hong Kong was always living on borrowed time. China could have just walked in anytime it wanted to regardless of Hong Kong's status as a colony in perpetuity or on a 99 year lease. Nothing stopped China taking Macau eventually, even though there was no 99 year lease. In all fairness, the British did a great job to create a city unrivalled for many years. Hong Kong was brimming with optimism in the 60s/70s/80s. Even after the handover there was not much to complain about. Life went on as normal. Its only after 2005 when the Mainland took off that Hong Kong has been left behind. When Hong Kong people see the Mainlanders with much more money coming to vacation and shop, its a sad reminder to them of how badly the HK government has fucked things up here.

    timothwc likes this.

  4. #34

    24 years...lets see....by this time, Japan became an economic power after its surrender in 1945. It hosted the Olympics in a mere 19 years. Taiwan became an export power house within less than that time. South Korea was dubbed the miracle on the Han. 24 year is a significant time to change things around. Maybe things move along at a slower pace in Pampanga?


  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevil_666:
    Hong Kong was always living on borrowed time. China could have just walked in anytime it wanted to regardless of Hong Kong's status as a colony in perpetuity or on a 99 year lease. Nothing stopped China taking Macau eventually, even though there was no 99 year lease. In all fairness, the British did a great job to create a city unrivalled for many years. Hong Kong was brimming with optimism in the 60s/70s/80s. Even after the handover there was not much to complain about. Life went on as normal. Its only after 2005 when the Mainland took off that Hong Kong has been left behind. When Hong Kong people see the Mainlanders with much more money coming to vacation and shop, its a sad reminder to them of how badly the HK government has fucked things up here.
    Yep all those protests were about HKers being jealous of the mainland and angry that HK was not more like the mainland.
    Coolboy likes this.

  6. #36

    The crux of the matter is that incomes have not risen in Hong Kong. Living standards have continued to drop and people have to struggle at a high octane level just to survive. So yes many HKers are upset that they've been left behind.

    Coolboy and Jackie1 like this.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevil_666:
    24 years...lets see....by this time, Japan became an economic power after its surrender in 1945. It hosted the Olympics in a mere 19 years. Taiwan became an export power house within less than that time. South Korea was dubbed the miracle on the Han. 24 year is a significant time to change things around. Maybe things move along at a slower pace in Pampanga?
    Your ignorance is evident. Pampanga was destroyed in 1991 by Pinatubo, and now is doing very nicely having got rid of the yanks.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevil_666:
    Nothing stopped China taking Macau eventually, even though there was no 99 year lease. In all fairness, the British did a great job to create a city unrivalled for many years.
    Yes, and these things are directly related. In 1967, the communists tried that strike/uprising in Macau, which worked there. After that date, communists had a great say in Macau's internal affairs and were already ruling to some part. The official handover in 1999 was then basically just a formality. Of course Portugal could have said they don't accept Chinese interference, but this would have meant war. Back in these times, Colonialism also was out, I think this is why many countries pulled out of their colonies.

    The Brits did a much better job at managing this communist strike in 1967, and did not lead to a transfer of defacto-power to China. But after this strike, Britain changed their governance in HK and tried to be much more approachable and serving the community. Especially from the 70s, there's been a lot of infrastructure development, also to convince locals that HK is better governed by the Brits. The MTR was built in that time, new towns in the NT, highways and tunnels across the harbor, a lot of public housing, hospitals, corruption went down and so on. That's why joining the communists was not that appealing anymore I assume. I think that is why China didn't try in the 60s and 70s to take HK back.

    The good governance inherited from the Brits stayed for some time, but I'd say since Xi took over power in China, they've really dropped that goal for HK.
    Coolboy, MatthieuTofu and Mefisto like this.

  9. #39

    I don't know much about Macau's history but Portugal was one of the last old world European nations to relinquish it's colonies. They were still fighting to maintain control in Angola well into the 70s


  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by donkeywonkey:
    I don't know much about Macau's history but Portugal was one of the last old world European nations to relinquish it's colonies. They were still fighting to maintain control in Angola well into the 70s
    ... which bankrupted them. They are now the poorest country in Western Europe.
    aw451 likes this.

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