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ESF: Unpaid leave / Disciplinary Actions For Teachers Refusing Tests

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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisX:

    . What's the objection? That they might test positive? That's god no? Stop the spread and all that. Being a responsible citizen.
    I suspect that in most cases(and I would feel the same way) it's not the fear of testing positive. As you say, if it happens than so be it, you do the right thing.

    The issue is more about if a colleague tests positive... What happens to the rest of the staff? How do you classify as a close contact? If I happen to go to the same washroom, do I get sent to quarantine for two weeks? Again, this would seem paranoid if it were not for the whole exam hall that was sent to quarantine in one swoop earlier.

    If they set and state strict conditions to be considered a close contact then it allows people to better protect themselves against an arbitrary order to be sent to quarantine.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis:
    The issue is more about if a colleague tests positive... What happens to the rest of the staff? How do you classify as a close contact? If I happen to go to the same washroom, do I get sent to quarantine for two weeks? Again, this would seem paranoid if it were not for the whole exam hall that was sent to quarantine in one swoop earlier.

    If they set and state strict conditions to be considered a close contact then it allows people to better protect themselves against an arbitrary order to be sent to quarantine.
    Clarity is surely needed.

    But...if a colleague visits a restaurant or gym or gets a mandatory notice in their block of flats, and tests positive, isn’t it the same problem? And same for the students in the classroom especially if their parents are regularly tested in their own jobs?
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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    Clarity is surely needed.

    But...if a colleague visits a restaurant or gym or gets a mandatory notice in their block of flats, and tests positive, isn’t it the same problem? And same for the students in the classroom especially if their parents are regularly tested in their own jobs?
    Yep, I assume all these teachers have also refrained from dining and socialising over the past few months for the same reason.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    Clarity is surely needed.

    But...if a colleague visits a restaurant or gym or gets a mandatory notice in their block of flats, and tests positive, isn’t it the same problem? And same for the students in the classroom especially if their parents are regularly tested in their own jobs?
    Maybe, and that's why so many people simply skip the register where you've been process whenever they can, they see no good reason why they should be dragged into somebody else's Q. scenario by poor policy

  5. #35

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    All things being perfect, teachers would not have to test. I think we all agree on that. But things are not perfect. In fact, they are very imperfect. And all of us to some degree have to adapt and compromise. This goes for many professions, including teaching. I do wonder why a section of the mostly expat teacher demographic feel they should be an exception.

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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisX:
    All things being perfect, teachers would not have to test. I think we all agree on that. But things are not perfect. In fact, they are very imperfect. And all of us to some degree have to adapt and compromise. This goes for many professions, including teaching. I do wonder why a section of the mostly expat teacher demographic feel they should be an exception.
    Because they're more inclined to think for themselves rather than merely follow blindly?

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisX:
    All things being perfect, teachers would not have to test. I think we all agree on that. But things are not perfect. In fact, they are very imperfect. And all of us to some degree have to adapt and compromise. This goes for many professions, including teaching. I do wonder why a section of the mostly expat teacher demographic feel they should be an exception.
    I can't speak as to why most are concerned but I don't think it's fair to say that many/most teachers don't want testing procedures in place. It is however fair to say that others like airline staff being regularly put through quarantine have it far worse than teachers but I have no issues with people pushing back to ensure more clarity and hopefully have some assurances. I do think that kids should be back in school, I do think that some monitoring/testing should be done but that doesn't mean accepting whatever is thrown at you without questions.

    I don't think that there are many in HK that are being put in a situation where they will all of a sudden interact with over a thousand of the same people daily with a significant portion of them being tested regularly. While the odds currently remain fairly low, it's a far cry from going to a particular restaurant for an hour and maybe interact with a positive case. I could be wrong but I am not aware of someone being deemed a close contact and being sent to quarantine for dining at an establishment or having a case in their residential development.

    Again, it would be paranoid to be worried if not for the fact that they sent a pile of people from an exam hall into quarantine for what seemed like very tenuous reasons.
    Mcdavid likes this.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sage:
    Because they're more inclined to think for themselves rather than merely follow blindly?
    Ah, the ‘sheeple’ argument. Most often introduced in the absence of any rationale.

    Those teachers that don’t get paid or lose their job will take great consort in the fact that at least they didn’t “follow blindly”
    Mcdavid likes this.

  9. #39

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    I realise it would not suit everyone's circumstance but would it not be far easier for everyone's sanity to forget the idea of face to face classrooms until (voluntary) vaccination for teachers and kids has taken a hold. That could be 3 months or more away but I would see that as a far more logical solution. Those that have been vaccinated can then have a test without necessarily the need for QT and those teachers that can't or won't take the vaccine may well have to accept compulsory quarantine, though I would hope by then for more sensible home quarantine measures to be in place (otherwise what is the purpose of the wristband)


  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisX:
    All things being perfect, teachers would not have to test. I think we all agree on that. But things are not perfect. In fact, they are very imperfect. And all of us to some degree have to adapt and compromise. This goes for many professions, including teaching. I do wonder why a section of the mostly expat teacher demographic feel they should be an exception.
    Some of them resent that their fellow expat friends who work in office jobs for MNCs are able to work from home or work remotely to facilitate travel and quarantine for visiting family. Being made to test as well further highlights the differences in their employment situations.

    I’ve observed that schools with a higher percentage of Chinese staff like VSA, ISF were among the first to announce testing and resumption of more face to face hours.

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