Big picture on state of covid HK (2021, 2022)

[ByeByeEngland]

You don't think the governments that have approved the different vaccines have seen a lot of data?

I think they’ve seen a lot of data, the question is have they seen enough data? It’s far too simplistic to say these drugs have been tested enough and far too easy to take a polarised view which says anyone not taking a vaccine is an anti vaxer.

I would prefer to state a view that under normal circumstances these drugs would have several years of investigation before coming to market but these are not normal circumstances. The question then becomes one of whether the risks of taking the vaccine both at an individual and macro level outweigh the risks of not taking them? My view is that it is a risk well worth taking.

Fast forward 30 years and post a scenario where there may be side or long term effects, without speculating exactly what they are. Is the world going to remember the decisions that were taken and the reasons for those decisions or is it just going to sue the crap out of each other?

[TheBrit]

Fast forward 30 years and post a scenario where there may be side or long term effects, without speculating exactly what they are. Is the world going to remember the decisions that were taken and the reasons for those decisions or is it just going to sue the crap out of each other?

This is just alarmist, non-factual made-up fear mongering. It is not based on science, just crude gut reaction without looking at the history of vacinations, understanding the mechanisms involved in this process and assessing the chances of something odd suddently happening after thirty years .. the chance is as close to zero as any of us are every going to get, save counting Sage's brain cells.

The reality is that mRNA technology will be widespread in thirty years and successfully treating many more diseases than we are able to today. But you don't hear the refuseniks and anti-vaxxers embracing this reality for some reason.

[ByeByeEngland]

No it is not alarmist and non-factual. Facts? I’ll give you facts

1) Thalidomide

2) Rush to market

https://www.who.int/immunization/pro...tions.pdf?ua=1

I stated in my post the rewards outweigh the risk - where is that being alarmist? Or is it you taking the moral high ground as usual?

The only difference between you and Sage is he goes off piste to try to justify his positions and we end up with paragraphs of crap. I prefer your approach which is usually just a line or two of polarised views which the large majority of people on here ignore

[TheBrit]

No it is not alarmist and non-factual. Facts? I’ll give you facts

1) Thalidomide

Not a vaccine

[Aramis]

Most people understand that vaccines are the only way out of this mess, that the emergency approvals were necessary and that testing was adequate to deem them safe enough to use in most cases. It is very possible that mrna vaccines will provide some incredible new development including uses against cancer.

It is also a fact that past vaccines were eventually dismissed or pulled off the shelves after issues were discovered. It doesn't mean they shouldn't have been used or that they caused scandalous issues but better ways were eventually found to tackle the problems. Casually dismissing potential issues only serves to antagonize people but that's par for the course for some.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4975064/

https://globalnews.ca/news/7706514/v...ontech-cancer/

[Cornmeal]

No it is not alarmist and non-factual. Facts? I’ll give you facts

1) Thalidomide

2) Rush to market

https://www.who.int/immunization/pro...tions.pdf?ua=1

I stated in my post the rewards outweigh the risk - where is that being alarmist? Or is it you taking the moral high ground as usual?

The only difference between you and Sage is he goes off piste to try to justify his positions and we end up with paragraphs of crap. I prefer your approach which is usually just a line or two of polarised views which the large majority of people on here ignore

You seem to ignore a lot so here it is again. The only data not shared is likely the proprietary formula they've used. The funds were a non-issue (makes things go fast), data has been shared throughout the 3 phased trials, hence their seemingly rapid gov' approval for emergency use. The data is also available to the scientific community and has been peer reviewed with the exception being the last phase which is ongoing. mRNA is quite new but not that new, they had begun the research 30 years ago, it resurfaced during SARS 1.0 only to be shelved again...

Thalidomide!? You're talking about a time when doctors endorsed smoking, you may as well compare amputations in the 1960s to preanesthetic times when "doctors" competed against each other in a theatre to saw legs & arms off the quickest, while a terrified drunk lay on a table, and a live audience cheered them on.




https://www.history.com/news/cigaret...ng-endorsement

People need to stop talking shit about the vaccines being "untested", they've gone through Phases 1, 2, & Phase 3. Pfizer's been given to 50% of Israel and another 55M doses in the US alone. There's only 2 questionable vaccines (not peer reviewed), and only 1 currently being paused due to a "bad batch" (still not reassuring I know) but they've all been tested, we won't know any possible, and likely very rare, long term effects of any of them for quite some time otherwise they're the best hope of getting us back to normal.

There are some caveats of course, like the longer length of typical clinical trials but this is usually due to securing funding, since that wasn't an issue this time they proceeded at a much faster pace. The data sharing between pharma and government health regulators also isn't typically shared in real time, which was also the case here.


https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

And here's some more info folks can choose to ignore:







https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01230-y#Fig1

[mrgoodkat]

Let's see if Hong Kong is gonna follow

SZ cuts quarantine period for overseas travelers_Shenzhen Daily

[Cornmeal]

Let's see if Hong Kong is gonna follow

SZ cuts quarantine period for overseas travelers_Shenzhen Daily

As per the conference, four groups of people are not allowed to attend the festival’s ceremonial activities, they are: (1) persons who have stayed overseas (including Hong Kong and Taiwan) within 14 days upon arrival in the city; (2) persons who have stayed in medium- and high-risk areas in the country within 14 days; (3) close contacts who are cleared from isolation less than seven days after 14 days of isolation; and (4) persons with acute respiratory symptoms such as fever and cough.

How many cases reported in SZ/GBA?

[mrgoodkat]

How many cases reported in SZ/GBA?

Most people from Hong Kong have to quarantine for 14 days upon arrival in Shenzhen. It doesn't say 14 days from the end of the quarantine, but from arrival, i.e. the beginning. By the time they've left quarantine they can attend the Qingming festival. With Shenzhen being back at 14 days, someone with a HRP can fly to Shenzhen, quarantine 14 days then use the return2HK scheme and save 7 days on Hong Kong's 21 day quarantine.

[AsianXpat0]

I certainly am fully and acutely aware of the pressure that this has put on a lot of people, not only just business travellers but a lot of people. To be isolated for 21 days is a huge load in terms of physical, psychological and other aspects. I would say that I would personally look into this matter and see whether we could find mitigating factors to reduce or to bring back the 21 days to the norm of 14 days which are adopted in many other places.

At the same time we could assure the public health officials that there are safeguards in place to ensure that if people leave the quarantine centre or hotel earlier than 21 days, there are certain safeguards or medical surveillance in place to ensure that they will not bring infection into the community.

I certainly realise that since the latter half of November, now almost four months, with all these very stringent measures, it does give us the relief in terms of the cases coming down very significantly, but we would need to also take into account the interests, the benefits and the needs of other people.

A cynic might say it explains the last CENO press con remarks...