Possible Cross Infection Case - Ramada TST

[mrgoodkat]

My simple understanding of hotel HVAC design is that the hallways have positive pressure with fresh outside air coming into the hallway. If there is a fire in a room etc the smoke will not immediately seep out into the hallway so the hallway is kept free of smoke in order for people to escape. This means that he rooms have slightly negative pressure and the hallway air provides the make up air for each rooms fan coil unit.
So a person in hotel quarantine is infected has been coughing in their room all day. They open the door to retrieve their meal and maybe linger in the hall for a breath of fresh air and change of scenery.
The air in the hallway could now have virus particles and due to the positive pressure in the hall this air could get sucked into another hotel unit along the same corridor. Three meals a day over 3 weeks...

It's not an issue in China. And they've had hotel quarantine since forever. They have actual security guards on each floor making sure people don't go into other rooms though, maybe that's the difference.

[shri]

The hooks are being ruled out by an expert...

But an expert advising the government on its coronavirus strategy, Professor David Hui of the Chinese University, told a radio programme that there’s no evidence supporting the presumption as tests later found no virus on the hooks.

A specialist in respiratory medicine, Leung Chi-chiu, echoed Hui’s views, saying he didn’t believe this was how the virus was transmitted.

He said airborne transmission was more likely.

“For these hotels, many of them have a very long corridor, some of them may not be well-ventilated," he said. "When individuals open the doors, especially when they are not wearing the masks, there’s a risk that contaminated air may get into the corridor."

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...0-20210421.htm

[riversidejr]

For me, the hook theory did not make any sense - it was just an easy scapegoat narrative which could be fixed at literally no cost (compared to the more pressing questions whether it makes sense to quarantine people in poorly ventilated hotel rooms for 21 days or longer). Probably the long incubation periods of some cases have been cross-infections from the hotels after all.
For the hooks, you just have to think about the following, and as the girlfriend of the person who came from Dubai is a nurse, he should have some hygenen awareness:

The hook theory basically means that inftected patient A first has to leave a lot of virus load on his hands before he touches the hook (I have not seen any pictures but I would doubt that the hook is something you touch thoroughly when you receive something that hands there or you hang something yourself).
So how likely is it that this has left enough viral load on the hook that it can infect somebody else?
Then the hotel employee comes and also touches the hook (maybe with protective gear/gloves, which probably hinder the virus to be picked up from the hook). However, for the hypothesis to work, the hotel employee needs to pick up sufficient load of virus from this hook and pass it on to the next hook (of the Dubai patient).
So assuming that against all odds, sufficient virus load has now been transferred to the Dubai patient's hook and he is unfortunate enough to pick up sufficient viral load from his hook and before he performs any hand hygene etc. he touches his eyes or mouth and gets infected. Anybody tell me what the odds for this are.

[hongkong7]

How long is it before every hotel door hook in Hong Kong has a plastic cover over it rendering it both unusable and unsanitary ?
Like the plastic microbe traps they put on lift buttons to improve biofilm adherence lol

[freeier]

Short the shares of the hook makers...

[shri]

Short the shares of the hook makers...

And buy wooden / plastic stool manufacturer shares, because thats what they were suggesting in the CHP press conference.

[ByeByeEngland]

Original Post Deleted

Rubbish we have the world leading experts in proving day 19 test positives and even an imported case where the person had finished their 3 week incarceration. The only real question remains is 28 days QT actually long enough?

When you go into hotel qt you have to walk the perimeter of your room before you activate the app. The app then pings you and/or you get a app or even a hotel spot check to make sure you are wearing the band.

I fail to see why you can’t self isolate on similar terms and undergo the mandatory testing. Surely the simple answer is also that the penalties for flouting the rules are too small judging by the number of 10-14 day prison sentences and nominal fines. Raise the bar massively on this and let’s have a sensible 14 dy hotel plus 7 (14) if needed self isolation rule). Yea I know. Ain’t gonna happen

[mrgoodkat]

Cross infection in the hotel makes zero sense. China makes everyone quarantine in really dingy hotels and they don't have any cross contamination. (They magically also don't have any cases after 14 days either) He probably picked it up somewhere in HK in the week between leaving the hotel and getting the test. Average incubation period is only 5 days. Seems much more likely than spending 21 days in the hotel and then getting cross infected 2 days before leaving (his day 19 test was negative). Why didn't he get infected earlier during his stay? Same goes for the door handles, surface spread isn't a thing, that has been proven again and again. It's only a thing because China keeps pushing it in an attempt to blame all infections in imported packages. I wish our "experts" would stop spouting so much bullshit in an attempt to get interviews.

[MatthieuTofu]

Are the room windows at the Ramada openable?

[Sage]

Infection off any surface is almost entirely bullshit, but off a hook hanging bag is so moronic it’s simply embarrassing.

I really wish they’d fuck off and get some sense.

I can believe cross contamination within a hotel if they have shared ducting which they almost certainly do.

I don’t believe much that comes out of China is trustworthy but certainly not a claim that their hotels are transmission free. Lots of reasons to lie about that and it’s easy to hide too.