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Expats, Protests and Vaccines...

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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by GentleGeorge:
    This
    Dream on guys. Let’s review 5 years later when you are all still shaking with fear of Covid
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  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwardstorm:
    Dream on guys. Let’s review 5 years later when you are all still shaking with fear of Covid
    Oh now it's five years and not decades? If HK is still mired in this in five years then so will most of the world...
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  3. #53
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    Oh .. absolutely agree. I gave in an earlier post the example of Portugal (my current residence) who royally screwed up with the second/third wave but progressed quickly and now almost have all the population at risk vaccinated and low case numbers overall. Problem is that HK and China now seem stuck in a perpetual loop of striving for zero cases / quarantine / no vaccination / no individual freedom .. so early gain, long term pain. It’s a bit like most things in Hong Kong .. Fax machines work so let’s keep using them. Signature checking required for bankaccounts etc
    Last edited by Edwardstorm; 04-05-2021 at 06:19 PM.
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  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by GentleGeorge:
    Given how little good the vaccines seem to be doing to save people against the mutated strains in India and other recent outbreaks, I think it's pretty clear by this stage that the HK mentality was right all along

    Lockdowns and controls to prevent spread, vaccines (first-gen at least)... 'meh'
    You're advertising your lack of clear thought on this in the very first line - "The vaccines". Surely you know by now that they're all different?

    Pfizer (being MRNA) has already been shown to be highly effective at preventing infection, with all the strains 'of interest' already - UK, SA, BZ, India. (varying levels of highly effective, but all highly effective)

    If you follow the BBC (and the UK as a whole) in the last few months you'll notice that they now lump efficacy data for Astra and Pfizer together - That's deliberate to prevent perceptions of a 2-class tier system - Those that got Pfizer versus those that got Astra. But you can be assured that there most definitely is 2-tiers in operation when it comes to strains that differ the most from the wu-flu strain.

    This is all points to the exact opposite being true in HK to what you wrote above. With Pfizer being on offer here, the many turning it down really are making a crap decision.

    Credit to the smarter expats who've worked out when they're onto a good thing. Who said generalisations aren't generally true (certainly not me).

    I know plenty of expat twenty somethings who are very happy that the locals have whelched so they can jump the vax queue. Give em a month and they'll be pissed off at them when HK makes fuck all progress still, but that's life I guess......

    ......Unless one of the variants of interest gets a proper hold (life finds a way! ;-) - That's when the fun will really begin.
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  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by GentleGeorge:
    This
    Unfortunately THIS, is wrong. Sorry George.

    HK is already falling behind relative to vaccine availability. And it's vaccines that are driving opening up, very little else.

    HK is veering into the slow lane; a disaster for a global financial centre that is really only a middle man between much bigger players.

    I was very bullish a few months ago on how quickly HK was gonna bounce-back, and 10 yrs ago it almost certainly would have. But i'll admit to being too optimistic on that front.

    I'm not happy about backing a losing horse, especially as I'm stuck on top as it dawdles back to the paddock.
    Last edited by Sage; 04-05-2021 at 06:48 PM.
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  6. #56

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    Solutions are so easy to find when you have your ass comfortably on a chair with no one power to actually do anything, no constituency to answer too and not having to face cameras every day with people second guessing your every move.

    Reopen early like Thailand did? Well now they are having to deal with their biggest wave and they had to put back quarantine to vaccinated travelers to 14 days and all their beautiful plans for summer tourism are up in the air.

    Easy to get everyone vaccinated when there is little trust in government? The US is now looking at perhaps not reaching herd immunity after an excellent start because of political divide. Good luck fixing that!

    Force people to get vaccinated? Interesting suggestion for people that are constantly yapping about freedom and democracy.

    Open and let the non vaccinated get sick? Sure let's overwhelm hospitals and not worry about those that will die, after all they think differently so they don't matter.

    Every country is trying to navigate the crisis walking the line between freedom, health, economy and no one even remotely got it right because it is impossible. Whatever course chosen will have serious downsides. Follow the science? The science isn't there yet for a disease that is barely a year old, it's a bunch of educated(uneducated in many cases) guesses.

    Is HK screwing up? Absolutely... What are they screwing up? A million different things which are completely opposite depending on who you ask. The master whiner complains about zero cases yet he was also complaining about how CNY was going to result in hundreds of cases because of early reopening.

    Hong Kong has a poor vaccination rate? No doubt it isn't great yet virtually all of Asia is well behind.

    I certainly don't feel I'm in the worst place in the world, far from it...My biggest gripe is being stuck in a small place but as far as policy goes, it's far from perfect but overall it's been ok considering the alternatives otherwise I would have left instead of spending hours on end whining here.

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  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramis:
    Solutions are so easy to find when you have your ass comfortably on a chair with no one power to actually do anything, no constituency to answer too and not having to face cameras every day with people second guessing your every move.

    Reopen early like Thailand did? Well now they are having to deal with their biggest wave and they had to put back quarantine to vaccinated travelers to 14 days and all their beautiful plans for summer tourism are up in the air.

    Easy to get everyone vaccinated when there is little trust in government? The US is now looking at perhaps not reaching herd immunity after an excellent start because of political divide. Good luck fixing that!

    Force people to get vaccinated? Interesting suggestion for people that are constantly yapping about freedom and democracy.

    Open and let the non vaccinated get sick? Sure let's overwhelm hospitals and not worry about those that will die, after all they think differently so they don't matter.

    Every country is trying to navigate the crisis walking the line between freedom, health, economy and no one even remotely got it right because it is impossible. Whatever course chosen will have serious downsides. Follow the science? The science isn't there yet for a disease that is barely a year old, it's a bunch of educated(uneducated in many cases) guesses.

    Is HK screwing up? Absolutely... What are they screwing up? A million different things which are completely opposite depending on who you ask. The master whiner complains about zero cases yet he was also complaining about how CNY was going to result in hundreds of cases because of early reopening.

    Hong Kong has a poor vaccination rate? No doubt it isn't great yet virtually all of Asia is well behind.

    I certainly don't feel I'm in the worst place in the world, far from it...My biggest gripe is being stuck in a small place but as far as policy goes, it's far from perfect but overall it's been ok considering the alternatives otherwise I would have left instead of spending hours on end whining here.
    With apologies to @Sage, once again, THIS!

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by GentleGeorge:
    With apologies to @Sage, once again, THIS!
    Apology accepted.

    Much of what Aramis writes the 2nd time is true..... Apart from the science bit . . . That really is bollocks, utter bollocks. He's been saying "nobody knows X" for months now and it's just wrong.

    Everything is as clear as it needs to be to make sound policy decisions. That doesn't mean those policy decisions are cost free - but there are clear paths visible that will minimise the cost; HK chooses not to take them.

    It's only pseudo-experts like some of the HK twats being quoted that muddy the waters, or those at the Imperial College COVID-19 Response Team (who are steered into making super conservative worst case scenario predictions because of politics. https://geoexpat.com/forum/415/thread360284-5.html refers)

    Sorry Aramis.
    Last edited by Sage; 04-05-2021 at 07:28 PM.
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  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by tf19:
    not quite what I meant. In my experience, it's the protestors that are the screen door on the proverbial vaccine submarine. I have a couple of co-workers who flat out told me they wouldn't get vaccinated because they don't trust any vaccine associated with China (i.e., Fosun / BioNTech) despite being informed that it's manufactured in Germany.

    Then again these are also the type who support Trump for being hard on China (despite they themselves being of Chinese heritage... the irony).

    Edit: once people start rejecting science, they're pretty much dead to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by tf19:
    I think we can draw parallels if we look at US anti-vaxxers who are predominantly Republican / Trump supporters. Unfortunately the opinion either correlates to political leaning or is directly influenced by politicians and right wing news outlets. To summarize a few reasons that I've read / heard / seen on why Trump supporters reject vaccines:

    - Why should I have to suffer for what China has done?
    - I don't trust science nor the government
    - I'm worried about the side effects and therefore will wait and see what happens to others
    - It was developed in a rush and therefore not trustworthy
    - Don't tell me what to do / don't tread on me
    - The jab will inject a 5g chip into me and allow the government to track me
    etc etc

    Does this summarize why HKers choose not to get jabbed?
    https://twitter.com/kjoules/status/1390584661584187396

    Does this summarize why some biased opinions are more unsafe than other biased opinions ?

  10. #60

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    And there was a big to do about an attempted BLM rally where people I know who tried to organize it felt very shoved aside by the democracy protesters who basically acted like gatekeepers.
    https://twitter.com/rthk_enews/statu...32859829788674

    An unoriginal thought, but maybe their misgivings were well-founded? Perhaps the “gatekeepers” thought they were more familiar with the usual process than people who sprang out only a for a non-local cause? I’m sure they were not entirely blameless and the mood wasn’t a positive one, but anybody trying to fault particular people they don’t agree or have common cause with have quite fortituously one additional piece of evidence to look at.

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