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Who is leaving HK, Anecdotal Evidence - Part 2

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  1. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by RobRoy:
    Agree well said Matthieu.

    For me personally the things you mention does not currently matter that much to me. It matter a bit from that I am are part of legitimizing the current system by being here working, paying taxes. But I don't think its that bad that I can't have that on my consciousness. This aspect I thought about before and concluded I would not work in Dubai for the reasons of legitimizing their awful view on humans and their rights. The current HK system, I don't like it, but I don't feel its evil to its core or something like that.

    As long as I have good friends here, I would like to stay in HK, it's still a lovely place, especially when you don't have small kids.

    Best of luck with your new life!
    What a strange point of view.

    China, where we live, has an awful human rights record. Much worse than Dubai'a treatment of immigrant workers.

  2. #752

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    Quote Originally Posted by hongkongmusic:
    China, where we live, has an awful human rights record. Much worse than Dubai'a treatment of immigrant workers.
    Well I still see HK as something slightly different than China, also even comparing to China not so sure about that. My taxes doesn't really go to Mainland, they stay in the city. There are many aspects to it, not sure why you just brought up immigrant workers, to name something else, Dubai's treatment of women is not something I can support. Maybe it was stupid of me to bring up this point, Im not really interested in starting a mud-slinging competition about what is worse, HK or Dubai.

  3. #753

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobRoy:
    Well I still see HK as something slightly different than China, also even comparing to China not so sure about that. My taxes doesn't really go to Mainland, they stay in the city. There are many aspects to it, not sure why you just brought up immigrant workers, to name something else, Dubai's treatment of women is not something I can support. Maybe it was stupid of me to bring up this point, Im not really interested in starting a mud-slinging competition about what is worse, HK or Dubai.
    The below appeared to transfer large dollops of HKs reserves (your taxes) to SOE's (CCP) from across the border.

    https://www.policyaddress.gov.hk/07-08/eng/p20b.html

  4. #754

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobRoy:
    Agree well said Matthieu.

    For me personally the things you mention does not currently matter that much to me. It matter a bit from that I am are part of legitimizing the current system by being here working, paying taxes. But I don't think its that bad that I can't have that on my consciousness. This aspect I thought about before and concluded I would not work in Dubai for the reasons of legitimizing their awful view on humans and their rights. The current HK system, I don't like it, but I don't feel its evil to its core or something like that.

    As long as I have good friends here, I would like to stay in HK, it's still a lovely place, especially when you don't have small kids.

    Best of luck with your new life!
    Still agree on HK being a generally lovely place, even more so when you've got settled yourself in for so long and have good friends. Especially with quarantine being lifted, I can perfectly understand why people would stay on.

    Despite all I listed, I wouldn't say this aspect of 'consciousness' and 'legitimizing' the new post-NSL regime played a particularly big part of it. I paid my taxes but that's about it, I wasn't a cop nor someone at ISD nor Brand Hong Kong repeating lies and gaslighting people on a daily basis.

    Personally, as a non-local, I could probably duck my head and try to tow the (very unclear) red line for a couple more years, after all, we've all survived 2 years of NSL and no one on this forum has been thrown into jail yet. I don't have kids so education isn't a direct issue, and even if I did they'd be going to intl schools which are safe (for now but probably not too much longer).

    I just think that NSL and all the repression to the protests prior to that killed off what HK stood for. Add in the never-ending and non-sensical at times COVID restrictions and you've added insult to injury.

    To be more clear, it isn't NSL that made me leave, it was the effects of NSL on HK.

    I moved here in 2007, and I can't honestly think of any more interesting years to be in HK (perhaps pre-handover) than 2014 and 2019. Those two years and the events that happened during that time really showed me and demonstrated to the world that HK was much more than just a place to make a quick buck and that HKers cared about more than just money. You could scroll back through the many, many threads on the forum where us members were amazed and intrigued by this side of HK that we had never seen before. The solidarity, the ingenuity, the humor, the wit, the art and culture (Art from the protest is a good thread, now that's how HK could've become a culture hub as they want it to now!) and just generally the awakening of the population were really interesting things to see.

    Many would say that 2019 wasn't a great year for HK, but to me (and to those protesting), it showed what HK could really be if it was taken off autopilot by the right people.

    NSL doesn't affect me directly (yet, I should say, as it really could at any point in time, one would never know), but it did a pretty good job at sterilizing the interesting and fascinating parts of HK that surfaced in 2014 and 2019. It hasn't yet reached Singapore levels of sterile (and I still think HK is much more interesting than bland Singapore), but at this rate of repression and emigration, it most likely could.

    There is arguably more than ever to do in HK, most of the places I visited in the last few years didn't even exist 15 years ago, and more new things to do are still on the way (very sad for instance not to be here for when they finally finish the promenade along the entirety of Island North!), but a lot of these are just weird in the wider context and largely soul-less. M+ and the wider Cultural District is a nice place to hang out, but what's a modern art museum and a cultural district when they are essentially barred from showing most things local? Again, I reiterate the fact that some of the art that remains in the Art from the protests thread is well worth a museum spot. Then there's the entire Lantau Tomorrow project and Northern Metropolis which doesn't inspire much confidence in being anything that emulates the charm of 'old' HK. It'll be just a developers' paradise and cookie-cutter mega towns as they like to build on the mainland. No big deal I guess when HK itself is becoming a GBA backyard.

    To put it short with a very HK-specific metaphor. HK has turned into a massive URA project. Tearing down a street full of character, new contracts given to mainland construction companies and developers who then build a remarkably soul-less new neighborhood that caters to the usual chain-stores, despite prior promises to retain the area's charm and character.
    shri, Cornmeal, William06 and 10 others like this.

  5. #755

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    What a great last few set of posts.

    There’s still a lot of good things about HK. The public swimming pools, leisure facilities (better if they fix the LCSD pitch scalping), the parks that actually have things to do in them and are not vandalised (zoo, aviary, Kowloon Park etc), hiking and so on.

    If I had a young family here I’d have been long gone but I’m enjoying reading about other expats that have done so, but still retain a soft spot for the old place.

    shri, hullexile and alexdown like this.

  6. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by RobRoy:
    Well I still see HK as something slightly different than China, also even comparing to China not so sure about that. My taxes doesn't really go to Mainland, they stay in the city. There are many aspects to it, not sure why you just brought up immigrant workers, to name something else, Dubai's treatment of women is not something I can support. Maybe it was stupid of me to bring up this point, Im not really interested in starting a mud-slinging competition about what is worse, HK or Dubai.
    Dubai is a city. The country is United Arab Emirates. Women have same legal status as men. Just dress modestly in public. It's not Afghanistan. But yes, it's not the West either. You are correct.

    https://www.uae-embassy.org/discover...men-in-the-uae

    Lots of pros and cons in both cities. Thankfully we can all choose what works for us.

  7. #757

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    Quote Originally Posted by hongkongmusic:
    It's not Afghanistan..
    Your Google search doesn't have to go too far to convince yourself that the golden cities of the gulf are in many ways much, much worse than Afghanistan

    You might want to start here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Dubai

  8. #758

    I mentioned the treatment of immigrant workers in my initial post but in your haste, you didn't read it. My second post was about women's rights.

    China, Hong Kong, UAE. None leaders in human rights.

    Let's make up and be friends.

    GentleGeorge likes this.

  9. #759

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    Thanks @MatthieuTofu, your parting thoughts are as good as your contribution here during 2019.. Do keep your presence from time to time as GeoExExpat like plenty others here have..

    Last edited by ndt; 16-10-2022 at 07:32 AM.
    MatthieuTofu, shri and Gatts like this.

  10. #760

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    An alternate view, from someone I know... https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion...-why-its-still


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