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Educating Kids in Hong Kong

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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolguy88:
    Well, non-HK passport holders. So even taking into account the locals with foreign passports, majority of students would be actual foreigners, no?
    For possibly the third time: Not from our observation, no.

    Most of the students are firmly Cantonese/Mandarin natives.
    rs4 likes this.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by chobochobo:
    That's a bit weird. I know league table positions aren't everything, but they are at least one indicator and the THE puts both HKU and CUHK in the top teens and 45ish in the world respectively. Beating a whole heap of UK/US/Aus/Can etc universities. Not liking the local educational system is one thing, but ignoring objective comparisons is another. (I didn't graduate from a HK University)
    THE seems to put UHK at around 30 and melbourne university at around 33.

    Some universities seem to be big on gaming the numbers. I know of a bunch of colleagues that got full scholarships and other freebies to attend HKU. They are smart guys and gals and were great to work with. But they came from countries where they wouldn't easily get a visa to live/work in HK... Still would have needed high marks to get in, but it wouldn't attract folks that could get into Harvard, Oxbridge, etc. Similar to how selective schools in Australia screen out the kids and get top marks in final year high school. 9/10 top schools are selective schools. Number 9 in NSW is a private school. Supposedly it's selective and has entrance exams in later school. They also select at pre-school / kindergarten, not sure how the principal does it...

    A lot of the other western universities don't really bother playing that game (THE uses international students as a measure). Thought a lot of Australia universities are beholden to foreign students, as they were an easy cash cow. And getting a university degree was a way of getting Australia visas.

    ANU was really big on 'publish or perish' and stacked up with academics that churned out lots and lots of research papers. Teaching was less of a priority and a lot of people I know didn't really enjoy the teaching. But that is probably high dependent on the teacher.

    I think HK did well for having population density and reasonable free flow of ideas, etc. Not sure how long that will last.

    Supposedly the top Chinese university students are highly rated, beyond the top 1000 universities worldwide, they seem to be terrible.

    There were way too many universities in Australia and big distances between them. They are really stacked full of students that can barely speak english, sit in a master degree and students in the team were doing shockingly bad copy and paste jobs on the projects and barely english, let alone any logic to the text. I'm sure they faked the TOEFL scores and outsourced their individual essays to the paper mills.

    And a bunch of students were too busy working to turn up to class. In a team of 5, it was probably the Swedish or Dutch students that did the work and myself that did the work. Other three did nothing and still got a masters in the end... MBA degree had much better screening and all the candidates were several leagues above.

    The nordic students liked Australia - warm weather, get paid AUD$40-$50 ph for simple washing dishes or hotel cleaning work part time. Some were tutors, etc.

    Good luck discussing international relations or politics when you are going to hurt the feelings of billions of people... Or sit in a class where the non-CCP aligned student gets bullied / hassled by the CCP connected student(s). The folks with Porsches and BMWs versus the kids that take the bus to class and work part time to pay their bills.



    ymmv.
    Last edited by jimbo_jones; 27-10-2022 at 03:24 PM.
    TheBrit, hullexile, jgl and 4 others like this.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    For possibly the third time: Not from our observation, no.

    Most of the students are firmly Cantonese/Mandarin natives.
    Probably carry foreign convenience passports. At one stage getting a New Zealand passport was very, very easy.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo_jones:
    THE seems to put UHK at around 30 and melbourne university at around 33.

    Some universities seem to be big on gaming the numbers. I know of a bunch of colleagues that got full scholarships and other freebies to attend HKU. They are smart guys and gals and were great to work with. But they came from countries where they wouldn't easily get a visa to live/work in HK... Still would have needed high marks to get in, but it wouldn't attract folks that could get into Harvard, Oxbridge, etc. Similar to how selective schools in Australia screen out the kids and get top marks in final year high school. 9/10 top schools are selective schools. Number 9 in NSW is a private school. Supposedly it's selective and has entrance exams in later school. They also select at pre-school / kindergarten, not sure how the principal does it...

    A lot of the other western universities don't really bother playing that game (THE uses international students as a measure). Thought a lot of Australia universities are beholden to foreign students, as they were an easy cash cow. And getting a university degree was a way of getting Australia visas.

    ANU was really big on 'publish or perish' and stacked up with academics that churned out lots and lots of research papers. Teaching was less of a priority and a lot of people I know didn't really enjoy the teaching. But that is probably high dependent on the teacher.

    I think HK did well for having population density and reasonable free flow of ideas, etc. Not sure how long that will last.

    Supposedly the top Chinese university students are highly rated, beyond the top 1000 universities worldwide, they seem to be terrible.

    There were way too many universities in Australia and big distances between them. They are really stacked full of students that can barely speak english, sit in a master degree and students in the team were doing shockingly bad copy and paste jobs on the projects and barely english, let alone any logic to the text. I'm sure they faked the TOEFL scores and outsourced their individual essays to the paper mills.

    And a bunch of students were too busy working to turn up to class. In a team of 5, it was probably the Swedish or Dutch students that did the work and myself that did the work. Other three did nothing and still got a masters in the end... MBA degree had much better screening and all the candidates were several leagues above.

    The nordic students liked Australia - warm weather, get paid AUD$40-$50 ph for simple washing dishes or hotel cleaning work part time. Some were tutors, etc.

    Good luck discussing international relations or politics when you are going to hurt the feelings of billions of people... Or sit in a class where the non-CCP aligned student gets bullied / hassled by the CCP connected student(s). The folks with Porsches and BMWs versus the kids that take the bus to class and work part time to pay their bills.



    ymmv.
    A small addition, to this. When it comes to rankings, research output is massively important which tilts the rankings in favour of institutions with deep pockets (or lots of cheap academics and postgrads). When I did my postgrad, most of the other students in my department were intent on pursuing academic careers - they were under huge pressure to have articles published in peer reviewed journals even before they graduated to help them secure a job.
    jimbo_jones likes this.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo_jones:
    The nordic students liked Australia - warm weather, get paid AUD$40-$50 ph for simple washing dishes or hotel cleaning work part time. Some were tutors, etc.
    If this is what dishwashers are paid now, I am in the wrong line of work.
    Baklava likes this.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    If this is what dishwashers are paid now, I am in the wrong line of work.
    That was weekend or evening work, almost a decade ago.. I think most of them could work 20 hours a week, so they did the weekend and overtime shifts. I'm sure a bunch did more and some cash in hand. Major hotels and reputable restaurants paid proper award wages.

    https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/...stralia/sydney
    This is standard rates. A lot of fancier places will pay a lot more, as their is a lack of staff now.

    Lollypop ladies earn a heaps.
    https://www.news.com.au/finance/work...5d3e1044b8459b

    Of course, certain groups make get rorted by their compatriots... Picking quarrels and provoking troubles.
    https://www.afr.com/work-and-careers...0220912-p5bhfm

    Certain franchisees would rort their staff... Paid their wages, then asked for money to be paid back to them in cash...
    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...yments-scandal

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    Define non-local
    Frankly, the government should force ESF to count 3 star HKID holders as local because the government would not recognise foreign citizenship on Chinese soil. But ESF has so many "Canadian" and "Australian" students.

  8. #38

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    I was looking at the THE for Medicine which was published a few days ago. I think it's a bit naive to think that home universities don't fiddle the system to get better position on the table. The old Norrington table was fiddled by colleges kicking out potential thirds and 2:1s on the second or third years before they took the exams.


  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by chobochobo:
    I was looking at the THE for Medicine which was published a few days ago. I think it's a bit naive to think that home universities don't fiddle the system to get better position on the table. The old Norrington table was fiddled by colleges kicking out potential thirds and 2:1s on the second or third years before they took the exams.
    It is not so much fiddling as priorities. As long as people don't think there is any automatic connection between ranking and teaching quality.

  10. #40

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    Absolutely. I'm no fan of tables but when they exist, they will be abused/fiddled/ prioritised, what have you.


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