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Creationism taught in HK schools!

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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    That's the way to teach tolerance...It's my way or the highway because obviously my way is better.

    Ban schools because you don't like what they teach...

    Never mind the fact that in many places, religious schools are far superior to public schools in terms of discipline, accomplishment etc...

    Never mind that religious order subsidize schools that perhaps couldn't exist otherwise. Let's all put kids in classrooms of 40-50 and see what happens.

    Let's all come down to the lowest common denominator.

    Some people argue that if everyone had to send their children to public schools then the schools would get better. Perhaps but I doubt it...

    There's a need and a desire for religious schools and I don't see why we should try to eliminate them. I wholehartedly disagree with some of the indoctrination that goes on in some of the schools but banning religion has never worked because too many people need it and it does provide a moral center that is badly needed and lacking in today's world. So what if a few people believe that the world was created in seven days and that we don't come from apes? It's not going to hurt anyone and when they grow up, they can make their own mind whether it's ridiculous or not.
    It is strange that the same people who complain about religious bigots and extremists then go on to want to ban anything to do with religion and act in exactly the same way as the people they say they despise. Nowt so queer as folk.

  2. #22

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    religion and logic don't mix. Evolutionists will never convince the Creationists, as the latter have been brainwashed from birth not to question.

    Frankly, I think if parents want their kids indoctrinated then do it at home, sunday school, or send the little bugger to a private religious school. It is wholly unfair to inflict the Christian brand onto kids in the public school from other religions. Imagine how tight the christian fundamentalist sphincters would slam shut if the schools were having Hindu, Buddhist, hell even Orthodox christian teachings.

    I also think teachers shouldn't be injecting their own belief systems into their curriculum. Now I know as a matter of human nature this happens anyway, for instance a teachers political idealogy may influence how they teach a civics or economy class, but as to science its absolutely ridiculous to let teachers be teaching hocus pocus from some tribal superstition smoked up 2000 years before the dawning of advanced scientific obervations.

    "Amen, praise Allah, have a nice daaaaaaaay!"


  3. #23

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    @gilleshk,

    So you would impose no educational standards at all on "religious schools"? So, in effect, you make the educating of children voluntary?


  4. #24

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    Some light-hearted distraction

    Heaven is for Presbyterians:

    http://www.themadmusicarchive.com/sa...sbyterians.m3u

    Worshippers R Us, the first church of all denominations:

    http://odeo.com/episodes/8570013-Worshippers-R-Us

    Rowan Atkinson, Welcome to Hell:



    "Christians are you here? I'm afraid the Jews were right. Over here please"


  5. #25

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    UK taxpayers, who subsidise religious schools and their proselytization heavily, can be denied entry to these schools for their children on religious grounds, even when they are the nearest schools in the neighbourhood.

    It is difficult to justify refusing subsidies to religious schools in the UK of any religious variety. But if you were a UK taxpayer, would you want to subsidise scientology-based schools?

    Selection by faith is divisive and may be racial. Would you want to subsidise racially segregated schools?


  6. #26

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    Not intolerance, gilleshk, but common sense and fairness.

    All children should have the right to an unbiased and free-thinking education. They deserve the space to form their own opinions. Teach everything, favour nothing.

    If some religious schools do teach better than secular schools, then they can just drop the religious aspect and continue to teach well. It isn't the religious element that makes their teaching good, is it? And if it's false moral authority and a fear of damnation that's to thank for high attendance and good discipline, then we'll have to find something else.

    If people wish to join a madrassa or seminary or whathaveyou after a basic education and on becoming an adult, then feel free. Indoctrinating a child is essentially intolerant.


  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax:
    UK taxpayers, who subsidise religious schools and their proselytization heavily, can be denied entry to these schools for their children on religious grounds, even when they are the nearest schools in the neighbourhood.
    The situation in the UK is a product of history. There was a time when the only provider of education was the Church. Also, of course, the UK is not a secular country.

    Having said that, I don't agree with religion being taught in schools, that's what the Church/temple/whatever is for. Pupils should be taught about relgions, and their place in society and history ("we killed how many people in the crusades??")

    There is a world of difference between a typical local CofE school and an Evangelical thigh-slapping "reeducation camp", but it seems that it's in the interests of both extreme sides of the argument to pretend that they're the same.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    @gilleshk,

    So you would impose no educational standards at all on "religious schools"? So, in effect, you make the educating of children voluntary?
    What are educational standards and who decides them? Inspectors from the education bureau? Principals? Headmasters? IB inspection? Board of governors? Should the local government inspect all schools and have them adhere to the local standards? Then virtually all the international schools in HK would be in trouble. The ones that receive government subsidies? ESF does and doesn't really get any kind of inspection about the curriculum they teach... Hodge podge of British and IB stuff... What about home schooling? Should the parents be vetted? Should only religious schools get inspected? That seems like discrimination to me...

    At the end of the day, private schools are businesses. If you attract enough students, you will do well... If you don't, you disappear. The good religious schools have the same exam(GCSE, IB, A or O level) that the non religious schools have. Do you seriously think that because a teacher introduces creationism, all hell breaks loose, all students believe in it and educational standards go down the toilet?

    Most of the content you learn in school is irrelevant anyway, much of it is the process in acquiring knowledge and being able to communicate it to others. Hopefully developing critical thinking skills that will allow students to make up their own mind about the world around them. Schools act as filters to get rid of the lazy and dumb and help students develop the process of learning so that when they actually get a job, they can learn how to do it appropriately.

    At the end of the day, many religious schools that actually teach creationism are far superior in terms of overall education than public schools who don't.

    I wouldn't work, actively support nor send my child to a religious school but there is a need and a want for them and I don't see any good reasons why they can't coexist with public schools.

    Keep religion out of the public schools and let the religious ones cater to those who want that sort of thing.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigga:
    Not intolerance, gilleshk, but common sense and fairness.

    All children should have the right to an unbiased and free-thinking education. They deserve the space to form their own opinions. Teach everything, favour nothing.

    If some religious schools do teach better than secular schools, then they can just drop the religious aspect and continue to teach well. It isn't the religious element that makes their teaching good, is it? And if it's false moral authority and a fear of damnation that's to thank for high attendance and good discipline, then we'll have to find something else.

    If people wish to join a madrassa or seminary or whathaveyou after a basic education and on becoming an adult, then feel free. Indoctrinating a child is essentially intolerant.
    So even though, there is a signifcant amount of people(in some places a majority). You deny these people the right to the education of their choice. You tell the parent that you know what's best for their children and force everyone to be the same.

    Essentially you're imposing your values on education to everyone. Forget about freedom of choice. You say unbiased yet it seems you think religious schools must be so... You say teach everything, favour nothing but don't teach religion. It's a bit contradictory.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    You say teach everything, favour nothing but don't teach religion. It's a bit contradictory.
    That's not what he said. He said that you should teach about religion - that many people suffer from various forms of this delusion, and it is their right to do so - but schools should not attempt to impose one particular religious delusion on children any more than they should attempt to impose a belief that, say, cannibalism is a valid source of protein. Yet you seem to be saying that if enough parents are prepared to pay for their children to be educated in the ways of cannibalism (which bits are best cooked how and so on) then they should be allowed to do so?

    I don't have an easy answer for how standards for schools should be set and monitored, but it seems clear to me that there should be some requirement in a civilised society for children to be educated.
    Last edited by PDLM; 09-02-2009 at 01:17 PM.

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