I think the opposition is less to the railway or the money it will cost, but rather because the 'consultation' is meaningless and government had already decided the route and would not deviate whatever the arguments against it. While in the past people accepted that this was the way things were in Hong Kong, perhaps now, as daisann writes on her blog, people are not going to accept it anymore. The upcoming by-elections / referendum might turn out to be very interesting.
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18-01-2010, 11:30 PM #31
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19-01-2010, 12:53 AM #32
its late, but thought i would post some thoughts on this new farce by the government.
- they love building white elephants which are totally pointless
- their projections are that it will make HK so many billion of dollars, not over 5, or 10 years, but over 50, 100, 1,000 years. but they seem to forget to take into account inflation. they use big numbers but to make it sound impressive, but forget to mention its over 1,000,000 years (yes, I am exaggerating, a bit like the HK government).
- where was the consultation, esp re where the GZ station was? As I understand it they originally sold it saying it would connect HK to GZ much quicker. It was only late last year that we found out that the GZ station would be in the middle of no-where. The government then changed the story saying that it was needed for HK to link it to the rest of China.
- End of the day all of this will stop you from going "dizzy"
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19-01-2010, 01:04 AM #33
Last edited by PDLM; 19-01-2010 at 01:06 AM.
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19-01-2010, 07:57 AM #34
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19-01-2010, 10:35 AM #35
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19-01-2010, 01:20 PM #36
Spoken like someone who never visits the villages in the NT. I hike through them regularly ... including the dumped shipping containers; rusting car bodies; piles of left-over building materials. If the locals cared about their villages perhaps they might show a little more public spirit BEFORE some rail line comes knocking at the door! The majority of them are just an eyesore.
Just read back through these posts. It's "too expensive" but no recognition that this is probably due to the undergrounding that avoids even MORE villages. 150 villagers is "too many" - well, what is the right number? You feel that there is no justification for the rail line, despite the need for more rail and less air travel, in which case no number of villagers is the right number!
There is very little LOGIC to any of the debate. There are even fewer facts. Without facts and rational logic, all this is is heated hot air and arguments. At the end of the day, somebody has to make these kinds of decisions. There are ALWAYS people who get hurt, have to move, lose their jobs, etc etc from pretty much any decision. That doesn't mean Governments should stop making decisions. I AGREE with the consultation, but it HAS been going on for years, and the only reason nobody knew that the station was "in the middle of nowhere" was because nobody BOTHERED TO LOOK at the documents. For goodness sake.
I actually think that the "middle of nowhere" is a great place for a station that is going to connect to a whole new rail network that is under construction. It'll be much easier (and involve fewer human disruptions) than trying to connect to the middle of an existing city. I don't see (and didn't before, when it was touted a quick way to GZ) why saving a few minutes to GZ is such a big deal when there are already plenty of other options. But connecting to the new fast lines in the mainland, is a huge benefit.
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19-01-2010, 01:40 PM #37
Yes. But the Government once chose to make this a major selling point of the whole project. I agree with Jaykay - a consultation period is a joke if you don't fully know what the Government really intends to do.
In particular, the extra 30 minutes for passengers to take public transport to Kam Sheng (if the terminus was built there) hardly matters for people taking the night train to Beijing, Shanghai or Chengdu.
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19-01-2010, 01:55 PM #38
Gee, considering we are in Hong Kong, it's not so much an attack I fear as the Government's reaction to the attack.
Think of the slightest possible security hiccup like, let's say the first non-employee to innocently slip through the security cordon unscreened, or the slightest hint of a real threat to our subways, airports and rail terminals. This will give our be-loved gummint exactly the justification they need to carry out a fear-mongering campaign aimed at implementing meaningless, excessive, (mostly) farcical measures that will continue to chip away at our rights, while making it look like they are doing something to protect the travelling public, but I digress somewhat.
The "no-security lines" argument for the rail link does not hold water. Immigration may be streamlined for rail travel just as well as it is for air travel, so what it ultimately comes down to is airspeed vs. trackspeed, which is a no-brainer. Therefore, the HKD 10,000+ per head cost for the project is definitely not for faster travel.Last edited by Dreadnought; 19-01-2010 at 01:56 PM.
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19-01-2010, 02:08 PM #39
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19-01-2010, 02:11 PM #40
Sorry M07, I usually agree with a lot of what you have to say but this statement is just crap. I've been living in the NT for years and have lived in several villages, none of which are as you described. Yes there are problems with containers and rubbish in some areas in the NW NT, and yes people are pissed off with it and yes they complain to the government and the authorities about it and yes then those complaints get caught up in the bureaucratic nightmare of various government departments all of which have sloping shoulders. So the villagers have no voice anyway, but that's ok, you can just keep blaming them, not those who actually perpetrate this damage who may also be villagers. A bit too much stereotyping going on here methinks. So, according to your theory, if a pervert living in the GC Marina proved to be a paedophile that means everyone who lives there is also a paedophile - going by stereotyping and all that......?
As I mentioned before, it's happened before and will happen again. People in HK are sick of being forced out right, left and centre. The URA who originally were conceived to beautify areas are almost Maoist in their approach. Get rid of the residents who have been there for decades, spruce the place up and then make it all high end meaning those who were originally there have no chance of going back. Same for public housing estates - 20,000 moved from So Uk Estate in recent years. This will all become private housing. So the familiar pattern of moving the poor so the rich have more choices. Nice, we all like that........
The problem is not the consultation, although of course these are never biased or incomplete....., the problem is trust. People trusted what the government told them. As they did with Disneyland, as they did with the Lok Ma Chau Spur Line, as they did with the SZ Bay bridge, as they did with the harbour front reclamation. It's only in recent years that the "truth" of these has surfaced. Absolute laughable attendance figures for Disneyland and laughable patronage of the 2 new crossings. All are white elephants, the most successful being the LMC spur line at just under 50% predicted daily usage - and predicted to drop again when the new express rail is built. People are becoming aware now and this is becoming more apparent.
Connecting to the fast rail lines is a huge benefit for tiny % of people here in HK. Again those with money who can laugh that the poor again made way for them. But let's blame the people for trusting the government. But hang on, it's changing. People have realised that the government has pulled a fast one a few too many times and are beginning to ask questions, questions they would never have asked before. They don't like what they hear, they are highly educated and want full explanations not the "we know what's best for you attitude" that has gone before. Blinker's have been taken off and that's what we've seen in recent months. Saying a consultation has gone on since 2006 means squat, what is important now is that the government will be scrutinised for each and every new project they announce.
Actually they should make it law that those who are making predictions on daily passenger numbers and value to the city should lose their jobs should these projects fail to achieve what they are predicting. We'd have several pieces of dead wood out if that applied to Disney, SZ Bay bridge or LMC spur! But the reality would be these predictions would drop considerably - BS no longer.
Anyway if train travel is really the future then why the f**k is the HK-ZH-Macau bridge vehicle only? Kills the above argument off completely!Last edited by jaykay; 19-01-2010 at 02:14 PM.
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