Reply
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Like Tree26Likes

What Are Debentures - Schools, Clubs etc

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    7,266
    Quote Originally Posted by shri
    As is the expectation of the holders of the DB debentures?
    Touche.
    To be clear, I'm not criticizing, I'm sharing the pain.
    shri likes this.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    薄扶林
    Posts
    24,486
    Quote Originally Posted by TigerSun
    Touche.
    To be clear, I'm not criticizing, I'm sharing the pain.
    Saturday draw - $49M
    Elegiaque and Mrs. Jones like this.
    Have a GeoExpat related problem - please create a support ticket.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Cramped island
    Posts
    3,430

    its like an 'interest free loan' that a purchase is providing to the issuer.
    debenture is allowed to be transferred on a bearer basis..

    each debenture can be attached with any kind of commercial clauses (subject to local law)..
    some debenture the redemption amortizing.. i.e. it will become zero in value after maybe 8 years, sufficient for a child to finish school.. these become like an outright payment to the school..
    but mostly debenture has redemption clauses telling you how much you will get back if it is terminated..

    one of those legacy financial engineering tool that HK institutions are making full use of...


  4. #14

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,605
    Quote Originally Posted by shri
    You're paying for a debenture to gain a benefit.

    Technically not a donation - there are some IRD and globally recognised definitions for this.

    My monthly "tithe" to the Jockey club is not tax exempt, because I have an underlying expectation that I will gain a benefit.
    Good point, yes technically different for sure with globally accepted definition and used across school/club/companies etc. I was referring something else (good old practice of under the table donation to secure a place which was partly used for infrastructure/development and the rest in board member's pocket and all that whereas debentures are a formal way of accepting money keeping track of all checks and balances etc..) but anyway im digressing from the broader topic..
    shri likes this.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by shri
    My monthly "tithe" to the Jockey club is not tax exempt, because I have an underlying expectation that I will gain a benefit.
    ... clearly not a Racing Membership then; that comes with expectation of almost bugger all benefit!
    shri likes this.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Cramped island
    Posts
    3,430
    Quote Originally Posted by shri
    Saturday draw - $49M
    the term we call this thithe, in hokkien back in singapore, is 'laying the grass patches for the field'... 铺草皮

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    9,173

    This is a good question that the OP asks.

    I have a debenture for one of the other Marina's (not DB). It used to give me the right to a wet berth - now it does not. It used to be transferrable - now it is not. It's UTTERLY unclear what it does.

    When they gave rights to a berth and were transferrable, these debentures were trading at around 4 million HKD. The par value is about 200,000 hkd. When the club - with a strike of their pen - removed those two clauses, the values fell like a stone.

    One marina member got legal advice that they "should" win if they sued. But the process was likely to take years and the legal costs be higher than the value of their lost debenture. And "should" was not "would". In the end they gave up.

    My short answer? They are a complete scam.

    shri, jgl and DrWho like this.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    薄扶林
    Posts
    24,486

    Its rigged - sort of like the DMC of our building.

    They've hard-wired the same of our building management company in the DMC. This can apparently be changed with a majority vote, BUT the property developer holds most of the shares directly and indirectly (through BVIs etc).

    I suspect the debenture terms need some sort of vote to be changed, but the developer has a bank of them which they can use when needed.

    Last edited by shri; 11-09-2018 at 02:42 PM.
    DrWho likes this.
    Have a GeoExpat related problem - please create a support ticket.

Reply
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2