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Ocean Park seeks HKD$10 Billion Govt. Bailout

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  1. #31

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    Feels like there are at least 5 separate issues underlying the discussions here but mashed together.
    1. Animal welfare.
    2. Lack of family-friendly entertainment.
    3. Economic subsidies for unprofitable semi-public goods.
    4. Competition between a subsidised for-profit enterprise versus a local not-for-profit attraction (is HK big enough for both).
    5. How management is determined for such non-profits to ensure the best possible results for minimal cost.

    It may be useful for analysis separating the different factors motivating opinions, and considering it is taxpayer funded, should surely be something people have a say about. I note points 1 and 4 are specific to Ocean Park (with 4 also relevant to Disney), but points 2,3 and 5 are relevant more generally.

    Isn’t it exactly the big picture that needs debate and balancing between different interest groups that is skipped over by a bureaucrat-directed system?


  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharSiuNow:
    Welcome to China. Or South-East Asia. Or in fact Asia (I understand Indian parents are similar).

    I once read a very interesting theory (I think in Freakonomics): when you grow wheat, you work hard part of the year and you can rest during summer and winter. Even better, you cannot grow wheat 4 years in a row, even the soil needs time to recover. When you grow rice however, you can have multiple harvests a year and the harder you work, the more result you get - there is never time to rest or play. The attitude of western vs Asian parents mimics this to some extent.

    (When I told this to a Caribbean friend, he said that when he was hungry as a kid, he would take the mango from the tree, throw the stone somewhere close, and then go to sleep )
    Interesting theory, farmer culture impacting broader societal culture.

    Shaped by rice culture or not, it is true education is traditionally highly valued in Chinese culture, primarily as a means for upward social mobility. In dynastic periods, passing demanding entrance exams lands you a spot in the imperial civil service, a highly prestigious post in Chinese confucian society. In the modern context of course it is seen as a means to increasing your chance to land a decent paying job. It was also meant to mold students into a Confucian gentleman that knows justice and honour. Unfortunately, over time, this warped or twisted into endless and mindless memorization and regurgitation of facts.

    To be fair, there are growing number of local HK parents realizing the drawbacks of the current system and dissatisfied with the local education, that is why the demand for international schools exceed supply. Sadly, many locals cannot afford the tuition fees for international schools either. The most galling thing is that the senior HK education bureau officals, quite a number of them sent their own children to overseas education while praising the local education system. Ironic isn't it?
    Last edited by Coolboy; 08-01-2020 at 05:30 PM.
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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboy:
    Some animals are not suited to captivity (i.e. dolphins) but others are actually ok with it.
    No animal deserves 'captivity' so people can gawp at them. They are removed from their habitat, their families/packs, their freedom to roam.

    I agree performing animals are the worst of all, but like the one example given of an arctic fox, how would it be OK with living in the tropics without snow, on concrete, and devoid of any normal life? And there are many more.

    EMPTY THE TANKS!
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  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by MABinPengChau:
    They need a big waterpark...I haven't been but I think they don't have this- we have two amusement parks in the Washington DC area with huge sections that are water parks, both popular and profitable even though they mainly run about 4-5 months per year. Nothing like a water park to tire kids out and have them asleep by 7PM...
    Waterpark is not practical in seasonal weather. it would have to close for a quarter of the year, since running heated water or building it indoors is much more costly to run. The climate isn't quite right for a waterpark in Hong Kong.

  5. #35

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    Original Post Deleted
    Yes, but doesn;t always come up with the best decision. Particularly with todays social media landscape. Much better to have the representative system where we vote for someone to represent our view and hold those individuals accountable to understanding those issues fully.
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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiona in HKG:
    No animal deserves 'captivity' so people can gawp at them. They are removed from their habitat, their families/packs, their freedom to roam.

    I agree performing animals are the worst of all, but like the one example given of an arctic fox, how would it be OK with living in the tropics without snow, on concrete, and devoid of any normal life? And there are many more.

    EMPTY THE TANKS!
    Sorry, I just am naturally wary about the animal hugging PETA types. Some of them are rather loony. Their righteous attitude makes feel they are not quite right in the head. I mean, have you seen how absurd and ridiculous some of their ads are? And I don't agree no animals at all deserve to be in captivity, some endangered animals would have been extinct were in not for efforts in zoos to breed them in captivity. And you gave factually incorrect statement about the Arctic fox suffering in tropical heat. Have you actually seen the fox exhibit? Do you know it is climate-controlled? That the fox's caretakers give the fox enrichment activity to keep his mind active?

    Certainly cruel treatment to animals are wrong and no one should abuse animals, and yes, studies have show intelligent mammals like dolphins or chimps suffer in confinement. But that does not mean I agree with a blanket ban on all animal exhibits. So please, don't lecture me or impose your values on me about what is right or wrong about animal captivity.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoista:
    Waterpark is not practical in seasonal weather. it would have to close for a quarter of the year, since running heated water or building it indoors is much more costly to run. The climate isn't quite right for a waterpark in Hong Kong.
    By this logic, water parks should only exist on the equator. And perhaps ski resorts should only exist in the Arctic circle.
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  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoista:
    Waterpark is not practical in seasonal weather. it would have to close for a quarter of the year, since running heated water or building it indoors is much more costly to run. The climate isn't quite right for a waterpark in Hong Kong.
    Too late, they are already building it.

    Works in the US where they close it 7-8 months of the year (Virginia/Maryland, cold and snow in the winter).

    OK to close for 4-5 months, still will be super popular...

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboy:
    Sorry, I just am naturally wary about the animal hugging PETA types. Some of them are rather loony. Their righteous attitude makes feel they are not quite right in the head. I mean I don't agree no animals at all deserve to be in captivity, some endangered animals would have been extinct were in not for efforts in zoos to breed them in captivity. And you gave factually incorrect statement about the Arctic fox suffering in tropical heat. Have you actually seen the fox exhibit? Do you know it is climate-controlled? That the fox's caretakers give the fox enrichment activity to keep his mind active?

    Certainly cruel treatment to animals are wrong and no one should abuse animals, and yes, studies have show intelligent mammals like dolphins or chimps suffer in confinement. But please, don't lecture me or impose your values on me about what is right or wrong about animal treatment.
    I don't agree with much of PETA either.

    LOL where did I lecture you or try to impose my values on you? I merely picked up where you opined that animals are OK with this sort of treatment.

    And that is my opinion, that no animal deserves or should be kept away from it's natural habitat.

    No, I'm not getting into something with you, you're like a dog with a bone!
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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiona in HKG:
    I don't agree with much of PETA either.

    LOL where did I lecture you or try to impose my values on you? I merely picked up where you opined that animals are OK with this sort of treatment.

    And that is my opinion, that no animal deserves or should be kept away from it's natural habitat.

    No, I'm not getting into something with you, you're like a dog with a bone!
    My apologies then. I don't want an argument either. So relax, no more mention of animal captivity for me on this thread, ok? Back to topic, and here is a more serious question, what should Ocean Park do to get back on it's feet, assuming we still want the Park to be around? Privatize and make the government butt out? Change management? Change attractions? Hire Zeman back? What do you think?
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