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WHO - a CCP run organisation?

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiaque:
    China is beautiful and great, but the CCP is ugly, and the world cannot confuse the former with the latter and thus refrain from necessary criticism and interaction.
    Here I'm fully with you, just like the US is more than Trump, the UK is more than BoJo, the Phillippines are more than Duterte, etc. HK is more than Carrie Lam. That's exactly why nationalism and even patriotism is such a bad idea.

    Now the quote of the Fox commentator. He says:
    Commentator: "What are we going to do about China? What are we going to do about a totalitarian dictatorship where it's ok to sell virus infected BATS in open air market places and then have business travel and tourist travel between THAT country and the CIVILISED world?"
    John Oliver: Whoah whoah whoah, that escalated quickly. He moved from the vaguely dog-whistly "what are we going to do about China" to "it's not part of the civilised world" at lightning speed.
    (underlined the part we can probably all more or less agree to and bolded the part where clearly he went off the rails).

    Sorry, but how is "between THAT country and the civilised world" ok?

    The world needs to carefully consider some of China's practices, lack of hygiene, animal and human rights abuses.
    The world most certainly should, but lack of hygiene is not the same as uncivilised. China had a civilisation of sorts (as you recognise) way before western "civilisation" was introduced to the American Indians (for which I have no doubt they are immensely grateful). It doesn't make them perfect, but it certainly doesn't make them uncivilised, and to call them that (as the commentator did) is simply ignorant.

    Again, let's not confuse one with the other. Lack of hygiene is not the same as civilisation, proper concern about totalitarian dictatorships is not the same as lack of racism, and Fox is not the same as journalism.
    Coolboy likes this.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharSiuNow:
    Here I'm fully with you, just like the US is more than Trump, the UK is more than BoJo, the Phillippines are more than Duterte, etc. HK is more than Carrie Lam. That's exactly why nationalism and even patriotism is such a bad idea.

    Now the quote of the Fox commentator. He says:

    (underlined the part we can probably all more or less agree to and bolded the part where clearly he went off the rails).

    Sorry, but how is "between THAT country and the civilised world" ok?


    The world most certainly should, but lack of hygiene is not the same as uncivilised. China had a civilisation of sorts (as you recognise) way before western "civilisation" was introduced to the American Indians (for which I have no doubt they are immensely grateful). It doesn't make them perfect, but it certainly doesn't make them uncivilised, and to call them that (as the commentator did) is simply ignorant.

    Again, let's not confuse one with the other. Lack of hygiene is not the same as civilisation, proper concern about totalitarian dictatorships is not the same as lack of racism, and Fox is not the same as journalism.
    China is not a civilised country in its present form.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Paxbritannia:
    China is not a civilised country in its present form.
    Unfortunately we'd have to agree on a common definition of civilisation.
    I think there are 3:
    * civilisation comes from "civis", ie to live in towns and have means of communication, advanced technology, etc (the oldest definition)
    * civilisation means regards to human well-being, including human rights and laws (introduced by I think Albert Schweitzer)
    * civilisation is everyone who doesn't have my cultural norms and values (as proposed by many people around the world)
    That makes it a bit of a semantics game. If you mean the second, I'm with you. Certainly we don't want that civilisation in HK.

    I'm quite sure both you and Katherine didn't mean the last one - I'm not so sure about the Fox commentator, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

  4. #24

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    Original Post Deleted
    weird to see Tedros contacting a known Dalai Llama sympathizer and enemy of China. His days are numbered.
    DennisMilano and East_coast like this.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiaque:

    I do agree @DeletedUser, from my (limited) experience with the US, race is convoluted with CCP. In my own experience, too, sometimes it's frustrating as it's individuals regurgitating what they've been fed. It's hard not to get frustrated at an individual when it all comes back to the CCP.

    I like to remind myself how beautiful the Chinese written language is, how culturally and linguistically diverse it is, and how the people have a refreshing can-do attitude (very unlike Hong Konger's "cannot"). China is beautiful and great, but the CCP is ugly, and the world cannot confuse the former with the latter and thus refrain from necessary criticism and interaction.
    China as a civilization has a very rich culture in the arts, philosophy and science that has contributed enormously to humanity. Historically, before the 20th century, China was the cultural heart of East Asia. Its Confucian philosophy, religion and arts have strongly influenced neighbouring countries like Korea, Japan, Vietnam and to a lesser extent Mongolia. This is why for example, traditional Korean and Japanese architecture has such a strong resemblance to Chinese architecture. Even as they later develop their own unique styles, the imprint of the Chinese style is still there.

    China created the "4 inventions", the compass, gunpowder, papermaking and printing. It was the first culture to develop a civil service by meritocracy through exams. Chinese culture also influenced the West with its impact on English gardening and landscaping. China's habit of tea drinking also later spread to Europe and Britain as well. So China has a very sophisticated culture that enriched the rest of the world.

    The problem then is not culture, but politics. The CCP in fact was responsible for a lot of destruction wrought against traditional Chinese culture during the madness of Mao's rule, especially during the the Cultural Revolution. Now it tries to brainwashed its masses into believing that Chinese culture is inherently unsuitable for democracy and Western freedoms. But look at Taiwan. It is a living breathing example of what an Asian culture under democracy can be like. There is nothing inherently contradictory between Chinese culture and democracy.

    It also has to be admitted that there are also those in the West who conflate the culture and political regime. Some in the Trump administration has made veiled racist attacks against Chinese. Strip away the surface and the antipathy motivating those in the Trump camp against China is often racial hatred. That hardly helps matter of course. But for us, just remember the root of the problem is the CCP, not Chinese culture.
    Last edited by Coolboy; 29-03-2020 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboy:
    China as a civilization has a very rich culture in the arts, philosophy and science that has contributed enormously to humanity. Historically, before the 20th century, China was the cultural heart of East Asia. Its Confucian philosophy, religion and arts have strongly influenced neighbouring countries like Korea, Japan, Vietnam and to a lesser extent Mongolia. This is why for example, traditional Korean and Japanese architecture has such a strong resemblance to Chinese architecture. Even as they later develop their own unique styles, the imprint of the Chinese style is still there.

    China created the "4 inventions", the compass, gunpowder, papermaking and printing. It was the first culture to develop a civil service by meritocracy through exams. Chinese culture also influenced the West with its impact on English gardening and landscaping. China's habit of tea drinking also later spread to Europe and Britain as well. So China has a very sophisticated culture that enriched the rest of the world.

    The problem then is not culture, but politics. The CCP in fact was responsible for a lot of destruction wrought against traditional Chinese culture during the madness of Mao's rule, especially during the the Cultural Revolution. Now it tries to brainwashed its masses into believing that Chinese culture is inherently unsuitable for democracy and Western freedoms. But look at Taiwan. It is a living breathing example of what an Asian culture under democracy can be like. There is nothing inherently contradictory between Chinese culture and democracy.

    It also has to be admitted that there are also those in the West who conflate the culture and political regime. Some in the Trump administration has made veiled racist attacks against Chinese. Strip away the surface and the antipathy motivating those in the Trump camp against China is often racial hatred. That hardly helps matter of course. But for us, just remember the root of the problem is the CCP, not Chinese culture.
    This part isn't helped by the fact that the CPP and their army of wumaos claim that all criticism against the party is an insult to the 1.4 billion+ people of chinese ethnicity.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthieuTofu:
    This part isn't helped by the fact that the CPP and their army of wumaos claim that all criticism against the party is an insult to the 1.4 billion+ people of chinese ethnicity.
    Wumaos vs Trump racists, dialogue of the deaf.

  8. #28

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    Original Post Deleted
    Post-modernism has received strong blowback from some science and engineering scholars (as well as many analytic philosophers) as nihilistic and not contributing anything meaningful to knowledge. That being said, its not entirely without value, it can be useful in unveiling hidden power relations and ulterior motives. But that is the extent of its usefulness as far I can see.

  9. #29

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    Original Post Deleted
    I never endorsed it in the first place. Don't know what you are harping on. Why on earth are you talking about it anyway? No one is advocating post-modernism on here. What WHO is doing is political ass-kissing, not post-modernism.
    juanalias likes this.

  10. #30

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHxU1ImzLXg

    Not directly related to the WHO but certainly touches on the Wuhan virus.
    cookie09 likes this.

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