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Is your god guiding you like Ms Lam?

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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerSun:
    Are you just as intolerant of intolerance when it exists within religion? - non-believers roasting in hell for eternity in Christianity or oppression of women and homosexuals in Islam etc?



    I protest the inference that Einstein accepted religion or believed in a personal god, he labelled religious beliefs as “childish superstition”. There are several good books that examine his beliefs in depth and two things stand out:
    a/ He disliked conflict and would address questioners to their liking, especially when wanting to immigrate to the U.S. and was questioned by evangelicals or fielding questions from little girls.
    b/ his many personal letters to friends and associates he made atheistic and agnostic assertions, described pantheist beliefs (universe or laws of nature as god) and packaged this as a ‘cosmic religion’:
    “It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”

    In a 1954 letter he said: "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."



    The difference between science and religion is evident among distinguished scientists: a 1998 study found that 92% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences reject a belief in God or higher power.
    Aramis: I find intolerance ugly wherever it lies

    Tiger Sun: Are you just as intolerant of intolerance if it is within religion?

    Which part of "wherever" did you not understand?

    Intolerant atheists and intolerant religious people should be called out. Unless they are being intolerant of intolerance. Who has expressed intolerance on this thread?
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  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:


    Intolerant atheists and intolerant religious people should be called out. Unless they are being intolerant of intolerance. Who has expressed intolerance on this thread?
    Actually, I am a bit more sanguine about intolerant atheists. Whatever you think of them, most self-proclaimed atheists in the Western secular world have done far less harm or radical action than intolerant religious people. They do not bomb abortion clinics like some extremists religious groups in the US. They do not murder newspaper employees for publishing satricial comic strips that criticize the conduct of religious groups, as in the case of the Charlie Hebdo shootings in France. So you may criticize their take-no-prisoners approach to religion, but on balance, they are much less of an issue than intolerant religious groups.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboy:
    Actually, I am a bit more sanguine about intolerant atheists. Whatever you think of them, most self-proclaimed atheists in the Western secular world have done far less harm or radical action than intolerant religious people. They do not bomb abortion clinics like some extremists religious groups in the US. They do not murder newspaper employees for publishing satricial comic strips that criticize the conduct of religious groups, as in the case of the Charlie Hebdo shootings in France. So you may criticize their take-no-prisoners approach to religion, but on balance, they are much less of an issue than intolerant religious groups.
    Personally I have never bombed or killed anyone. As an atheist I was arrested 7 times though. Still it is good the people of Hong Kong are standing up to those religious people up north who imprison millions for being atheist, or demolish atheist churches. Oh hang on....
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  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Personally I have never bombed or killed anyone. As an atheist I was arrested 7 times though. Still it is good the people of Hong Kong are standing up to those religious people up north who imprison millions for being atheist, or demolish atheist churches. Oh hang on....
    I was talking about atheists in the Western secular world. But if you insist on talking about communists, ok. They aren't doing this as self-proclaimed atheists though. They are doing this as communists. They happen to be atheist too, that is true, but communism in China is actually a religion if you think about it. It calls for unquestioning obedience to their beliefs. Mao (and now Xi) had a cult of personality that demands their followers to worship them. During the Cultural Revolution, Mao's little red book was the de facto "bible" of the Red Guards. They were imposing tyranny, not in the name of atheism, but in the name of communism, which is another form of religion.

    I mean Hitler was a Christian too, but would you say his actions is driven by his Christian beliefs? I would think not. So just as you can't label Christianity at fault for Hitler's action, you can't fault atheism as responsible for communist action.

    I understand you are a devout Christian. Props to you and I'm glad that has given your life meaning and purpose. But at the same time, you need to be fair and objective to people that may not share your beliefs, including atheists.
    Last edited by Coolboy; 26-05-2020 at 10:12 AM.
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  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboy:
    I was talking about atheists in the Western secular world. But if you insist on talking about communists, ok. They aren't doing this as self-proclaimed atheists though. They are doing this as communists. They happen to be atheist too, that is true, but communism in China is actually a religion if you think about it. It calls for unquestioning obedience to their beliefs. Mao (and now Xi) had a cult personality that demands their followers to worship them. During the Cultural Revolution, Mao's little red book was the de facto "bible" of the Red Guards. They were imposing tyranny, not in the name of atheism, but in the name of communism, which is another form of religion.

    I mean Hitler was a Christian too, but would you say his actions is driven by his Christian beliefs? I would think not. So just as you can't label Christianity at fault for Hitler's action, you can't fault atheism as responsible for communist action.

    I understand you are a devout Christian. Props to you and I'm glad that has given your life meaning and purpose. But at the same time, you need to be fair and objective to people that may not share your beliefs, including atheists.
    You selected nice peace loving western secular atheists who are into saving butterflies and evil bombing killing religious nutjobs as your two groups to compare.

    I chose communists whose official religion is atheism.

    PLEASE don't make this another of your arguments that go on forever. I concede your point even though I never really knew what it was.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    You selected nice peace loving western secular atheists who are into saving butterflies and evil bombing killing religious nutjobs as your two groups to compare.

    I chose communists whose official religion is atheism.

    PLEASE don't make this another of your arguments that go on forever. I concede your point even though I never really knew what it was.
    Look, I'm not arguing with you, I am just trying to clarify. You said commuists are an example of evil atheists. But regardless of atheism being their official position, my point is that communists are not doing their evil deeds because they are atheists. Their action is driven by communist beliefs, not atheism. Many atheists in fact are NOT communists. You cannot just lump them together. Just as Hitler was not persecuting Jews because he was a Christian. He was driven by his Nazi beliefs, not Christianity. So you cannot fault Atheism for the evils of Mao and communism in general just as one cannot fault Chrisitanity for the evils of Hitler and his Nazi ideology.

    Let's not get personal here, alright? My point here is valid. You need to recognize atheism is not responsible for Mao or Xi's actions.
    Last edited by Coolboy; 26-05-2020 at 10:35 AM.
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  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Personally I have never bombed or killed anyone. As an atheist I was arrested 7 times though. Still it is good the people of Hong Kong are standing up to those religious people up north who imprison millions for being atheist, or demolish atheist churches. Oh hang on....
    Ummm... I call bullshit on your arrests having aaaaaanything to do with your atheism.

    Which is probably not the best way to find out what you were arrested for. Do tell...

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by juanalias:
    Ummm... I call bullshit on your arrests having aaaaaanything to do with your atheism.

    Which is probably not the best way to find out what you were arrested for. Do tell...
    They were linked to being a communist which is definitely linked to being an atheist.

    Fighting racists and fascists mostly (and one for streaking down Cricklewood Broadway but that had nothing to do with the others )
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  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    They were linked to being a communist which is definitely linked to being an atheist.

    Fighting racists and fascists mostly (and one for streaking down Cricklewood Broadway but that had nothing to do with the others )
    Look that's the problem here. You blame atheism for commuism action. That's not logical. Would you say Christianity is at fault for Hitler's action? Or that Saddam's human rights abuse during his Iraqi rule was because he was a Muslim?

    Nowhere in atheist beliefs does it say lack of democracy or suppression of freedoms is alright. Nowhere in atheist beliefs does it say private property ownership is evil and collective ownership is good. You can't mix atheism and communism up. That's all I am saying, alright?
    Last edited by Coolboy; 26-05-2020 at 10:48 AM.

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