The PRC government is the best thing that has happened to China in the past 2 centuri

[paenme]

That's your prerogative, of course, but you should probably realize that not everyone needs nationalism to define who they are. Humans can live perfectly normal lives without waving flags and hating others for their place of birth.

I agree with your last point and I personally think there are too many borders, flags, nationalism and even languages today that prevent humankind from progressing. But realistically people will always be judged by where they come from or for any other minute differences that exist.

Also the real world we are dealing with is full of different nations, languages, cultures, races etc. and we are always labeled by our nationality, race whatever, whether we like it or not. I am not advocating of pride of the "nation" (especially in the "government" sense) necessarily, but there should be pride in who you are and where you are from. Personally I think that demonstrates a lot about one's characters. For all his fame and wealth, I can never admire M Jackson who could never be comfortable with who he was.

[paenme]

If they have educated themselves properly then in my opinion they would take almost any developed country ahead of the US, not least because of the worldwide tax implications and restrictions on investments and banking which makes it a very expensive and awkward citizenship to hold.

Yet every year you have the largest percentage of the most educated people opting to go to the US ahead of all others, how strange is that with all the country's faults and flaws?

[Freetrader]

If they have educated themselves properly then in my opinion they would take almost any developed country ahead of the US, not least because of the worldwide tax implications and restrictions on investments and banking which makes it a very expensive and awkward citizenship to hold.

You may dislike the US, as is your right, but all this talk about how terrible it is to be a US citizen because of its worldwide tax system is more than a bit overblown. For 99.9% of people, it will make no difference.

[gilleshk]

Really? You might want to try telling that to Singaporeans (or the Irish, or Kiwis, or Scandinavians). I don't think there's a good correlation between size and pride, privilege or respect.

And how much of an influence do these countries have on the world stage? Of course everyone is proud of their heritage regardless of size but it's just a fact of life that the mightier you are, the more influence you'll have...

Hong Kong itself can't do much but if it speaks through China then it's a different matter. The problem is always whether the larger entity will support the smaller one in the ways that it wants hence the need/want of having self determination.

I am more partial to a looser regroupment such as the EU where national identities are retained than an arrangement like Canada or China where different groups are forced to work within one framework that was imposed by force.

[PDLM]

Yet every year you have the largest percentage of the most educated people opting to go to the US ahead of all others, how strange is that with all the country's faults and flaws?

You can cut the statistics various ways. As a percentage of their population both Canada and Australia accept more immigrants than the US, for example. There are also far more migrants (people living in countries other than that of their birth/citizenship) in Europe than there are in North America.

Source: http://www.un.org/migration/presskit...ease12sept.pdf

[PDLM]

And how much of an influence do these countries have on the world stage?

Why is that important to me as an individual? To me a passport is just a travel document. As soon as there are "Citizen of the World" passports then I'll be first in line.

[Freetrader]

You can cut the statistics various ways. As a percentage of their population both Canada and Australia accept more immigrants than the US, for example. There are also far more migrants (people living in countries other than that of their birth/citizenship) in Europe than there are in North America.

Source: http://www.un.org/migration/presskit...ease12sept.pdf

I'm not really sure what you are trying to prove here - the question posed by paedme was which countries people would 'want' to get into. There is certainly a tiered preference, generally with the US at the top, which is at least partly due to the US having a lot of stupid immigration restrictions for so-called 'quality' migrants.

I know Oz doesn't have very high standards for PR status because they accepted me!

[gilleshk]

There's a pragmatic reason for that. It's a lot easier to immigrate to Canada or Australia than to the US. For example, it usually takes more than 10 years in the US to go through the waiting process to get in through family sponsorship.

You may not like it and I personally would never want to emigrate to the US but the reality is that many people do want to go including boatloads of educated canadians who have a much better social network, less crime etc... Many professionals choose to leave because they want to make more money, pay less taxes, have access to resources they would never have in their own country.

[gilleshk]

Why is that important to me as an individual? To me a passport is just a travel document. As soon as there are "Citizen of the World" passports then I'll be first in line.

That's you and your opinion doesn't necessarily reflect the majority. Anyway, I wasn't talking about individuals but in more general terms.

[PDLM]

many people do want to go including boatloads of educated canadians who have a much better social network, less crime etc...

A quick look on Wiki (not definitive I know) says that the number of US citizens living in Canada and Canadian citizens living in the USA is approximately equal at about 7-800,000.