The PRC government is the best thing that has happened to China in the past 2 centuri

[Gatts]

Why is that important to me as an individual? To me a passport is just a travel document. As soon as there are "Citizen of the World" passports then I'll be first in line.

Indeed, and that is why I absolutely despise patriotism. I take pride in being a free human being with my own choices, but the nation were I come from is totally secondary, and as PDLM would trade in my passport for World Citizen on in heartbeat!

[paenme]

Immigration acceptance rate does not correlate to where the immigrants would pick as their first choice. It is common knowledge that people in the Greater China would generally select places of immigration/overseas study in this order - US, Canada, Australia, NZ. Obviously US visas are the most difficult to obtain.

I've lived in three continents and as a minority with an accent, I have to say that I experienced far less prejudice in the US than in Europe or Australia. Large countries on many levels tend to have higher tolerance for differences. For however many flaws US has, other countries are likely to have a lot more.

[Sunfire]

I agree with your last point and I personally think there are too many borders, flags, nationalism and even languages today that prevent humankind from progressing. But realistically people will always be judged by where they come from or for any other minute differences that exist.

Also the real world we are dealing with is full of different nations, languages, cultures, races etc. and we are always labeled by our nationality, race whatever, whether we like it or not. I am not advocating of pride of the "nation" (especially in the "government" sense) necessarily, but there should be pride in who you are and where you are from. Personally I think that demonstrates a lot about one's characters. For all his fame and wealth, I can never admire M Jackson who could never be comfortable with who he was.

To expand on idealism and realism with regards to one's identity and pride:

Ideally, if most people were capable of restraining their pride in something they had actually accomplished themselves, such as developing their own true sense of self and self-determination, I wouldn't have any problem with pride. That's assuming that by pride we mean the ideal, virtuous definition of pride, which is a feeling of self-respect and personal worth. There's absolutely nothing wrong with gaining self-respect and a feeling of personal worth from something you've accomplished.

Realistically, however, most people cannot contain their pride and derive it from something they had no hand in. From my point of view, the pride of most people is like a cancer. Once it takes root, it grows into vanity and hubris, arrogance and a feeling of superiority over others. The most blindingly obvious example is national pride. It's abrasive, destructive and counterproductive to the development of humankind as a species.

[PDLM]

It is common knowledge that people in the Greater China would generally select places of immigration/overseas study in this order - US, Canada, Australia, NZ.

Source? I find data online suggesting that Europe and North America are approximately equal for mainland Chinese at least, although the numbers seem to go up and down quite dramatically year by year.

Sources: http://www.apa.org.au/upload/2004-6C_Yao.pdf
http://www.moe.edu.cn/english/international_2.htm

[paenme]

PDLM, you continue to ignore others' comment about the much stricter US immigration requirements. If you can't look at this issue objectively, non-defensively and not so insecurely, then there is probably no point discussing further.

[Freetrader]

A quick look on Wiki (not definitive I know) says that the number of US citizens living in Canada and Canadian citizens living in the USA is approximately equal at about 7-800,000.

The difference being, of course, that 800,000 is about 2.8% of the population of Canada, and about .25% of the population of the US.

I know of no greater fan of Canada than I (or me?), but there is certainly something of a brain drain from Canada to the States. Heck, I even had a friend from Canada who overstayed his visa, and got deported for being an illegal alien.

[gilleshk]

A quick look on Wiki (not definitive I know) says that the number of US citizens living in Canada and Canadian citizens living in the USA is approximately equal at about 7-800,000.

Do you have a point? You're the one who seem to say that educated people shouldn't want to emigrate to the US, however many do for a variety of reasons. Plenty of US born citizen choose to leave for their own reasons. It could be crime, universal access to health care or simply those who wanted to dodge the draft or maybe they just met the love of their life somewhere else...

However, it's irrelevant...

The reality is that the US is still the world's top dog in many ways and some are attracted to that... You and I may not like it but it doesn't change the facts that many do.

I don't think that pride needs to lead to hatred either. I couldn't care less what passport I hold but I do care about my cultural heritage. I think it's sad for example to see immigrants children not speaking their mother tongue, or appreciating their native food, clothing, stories, songs etc... I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone is the same. It might be more practical or peaceful but it would be boring as hell.

[PDLM]

PDLM, you continue to ignore others' comment about the much stricter US immigration requirements. If you can't look at this issue objectively, non-defensively and not so insecurely, then there is probably no point discussing further.

And you continue to blindly market the US. The feeling is mutual. And you haven't quoted a single source for your assertions yet - I have quoted several for mine.

[gilleshk]

It's pretty hard to quantify what people wants vs the reality of what people end up doing. You are trying to blindly win an argument by hiding behind numbers that don't necessarily reflect the topic of discussion

[PDLM]

On that issue I agree, but on issues such as "the USA is the hardest one to get into" it should be possible to provide data to support that. I can't speak for immigration but to get in as a visitor I do know from experience that the USA (and Australia) were the easiest that my (Filipino) wife has tried for. The UK was middling hard, and Europe was really quite hard indeed.

Trying the UK's immigration points calculator I see, for example, that my wife's 3 years of study at a University in The Philippines where the course is taught entirely in English fails the English language test for an employment visa. For the US, as far as I know from members of her family who have done it, the English language requirements for entry are absolutely trivial.