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How would you improve China?

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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    Yep, you are right Freetrader. Being dead is clearly better than living in China right now.

    (This is one of those cultural by-passes Freetrader, you clearly have a strong view based on growing up in the USA where guns are common; I have an equally strong and opposite view growing up in the UK where even the police did not carry guns. I do not think guns solve problems. I think they make them worse. And people die into the bargain.)
    Um, no, I'm actually for strong gun control.

    My being American doesn't have anything to do with this, by the way (I've noticed that whenever someone disagrees with me around here, they immediately attack me based on nothing more than my being an American. I suppose that since racism is considered to be a bad thing in polite company these days, mindless people will simply have to vent their prejudices based on national origin alone, as Skyhook does above, and you do in your own post. I suppose that is much more 'civilized').

    If, just for laughs, you were to try reading what I wrote, and sticking to the point, you would note that what I wrote was essentially, i.) the CCP controls China through political oppression that is maintiained and 'legitimized' by violence against anyone who would protest against it, and that therefore, ii.) your assertion that 'guns never solved anything' is complete nonsense, belied by both the history of the world and most immediate and relevantly, by the CCP's own control of China, which as noted was achieved and continues to be maintained through violence. If Mao were here today, he would be laughing at your naive comment.
    Last edited by Freetrader; 19-04-2011 at 01:34 PM.

  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by bookblogger:
    Not sure what point you're trying to make, but China launched wars against its neighbours most recently in 1962 and 1979, so it's not the peaceful state some make it out to be.
    Duhhh... Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Vietnam....

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    WTF was that Skyhook????

    BTW, I'm not a Brit, but the only reason Gandhi wasn't killed was because the Brits respected human rights - he used their own principles against them, which is why he eventually won. Hitler actually asked Chamberlain why he didn't just have Gandhi killed. If Gandhi had lived in today's China, he would have been executed or disappeared long ago, and you never would have heard of him.
    That is absolutely correct and exactly why Britain is slowly eating itself. The best thing Britain could do to defend itself right now is have a good old crackdown.

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought:
    Grow up. There is never a 'right time'. No one is ever 'ready'. Chinese people are mature enough, they can handle some real independence.
    You mean by stocking up on salt and soy sauce?

  5. #155

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    Original Post Deleted
    Yes, saying this one thousand times makes it true..eh?

  6. #156

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    Well folks it appears that some people here are advocating civil war where millions will die. Its so easy to say what can be done but i bet most of the people here have trouble controlling their own family let alone feeding a population of nearly 2 Billion.
    They think its easy, just give them democracy!.... would corruption go away and people will be very happy and it will be utopia.


  7. #157

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    To answer the OP's question, the first thing that needs to happen is

    1)Stability
    2)Food
    3)Education

    NOT

    1) Civil war
    2) Instability, Starvation and famine
    3) Millions dead


    Once there is stability and people can make money to feed their families, the natural progression would be education. Once people have education then they will have the capacity to think.
    Democracy will then come but expect at least 3 generations.

    MovingIn07 likes this.

  8. #158

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    Actually the legitimacy of the CCP came from the people. They threw out a corrupt and murderous warlord who was brutally supressing the people which a little help of course from the Americans, British, French and Germans.


  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by HKITperson:

    NOT

    1) Civil war
    2) Instability, Starvation and famine
    3) Millions dead
    Show me anyone in this thread who has advocated this.
    Loz_2 likes this.

  10. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:

    In any case, NO ONE on this thread has said anything negative about the Chinese people or desires anything but their benefit; on the contrary, it is pretty self evident that those who have repeatedly expressed a concern with the civil rights of the Chinese people have a lot more reason to be taken as friends of the Chinese than those on this thread - you, Moving, English, Football, and a couple of others - who are more than happy to deprive the Chinese of their civil rights and consign them to an endless political and social purgatory because you believe that only a ruthless dictatorship can provide 'order' - provided that you don't personally have to actually live under it.

    .
    No one is against civil rights or democracy for the Chinese people... but NOW is simply not the right time. Most of us are practical about the current situation. China simply cannot be changed overnight and from implementing a western "plug and play" model. If you look back in history of the turmoils that surrouned any major upheavels then you know why.
    China needs to develop at its own pace and its own Government knows better how to do this then someone sitting in the West.

    If the Chinese Government is so bad then why do you think so many people return back there and not defect. In fact when were the last defections from China?
    Last edited by HKITperson; 19-04-2011 at 04:54 PM.
    MovingIn07 likes this.

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