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How would you improve China?

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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryant.english:
    What if most Chinese people are happy with the way things are/are going now? What then? What if most Chinese people think the activists should just shut up and get with the programme?
    How would you know what 'most people' in China want? Has there been an election or something like that? Why would what 'most people' in China want be so important to you anyway, since you obviously believe in having a dictatorship?

    Also, I take it you don't believe that there is a fundamental human right to express one's views? Do you think that if most people disagree with someone, then they have the right to make that person shut up? I don't know what country you are from, but it certainly isn't the one suggested by your last name.
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    How would you know what 'most people' in China want? Has there been an election or something like that? Why would what 'most people' in China want be so important to you anyway, since you obviously believe in having a dictatorship?

    Also, I take it you don't believe that there is a fundamental human right to express one's views? Do you think that if most people disagree with someone, then they have the right to make that person shut up? I don't know what country you are from, but it certainly isn't the one suggested by your last name.
    Actually Bryant has a point. Most Chinese don't care. As long as they are making money they could not care less. It's a selfish society looking out for oneself.

    Anyway they are feed the wrong or no information from the propaganda media so they really can't make a choice to what is right or wrong.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    How would you know what 'most people' in China want? Has there been an election or something like that? Why would what 'most people' in China want be so important to you anyway, since you obviously believe in having a dictatorship?

    Also, I take it you don't believe that there is a fundamental human right to express one's views? Do you think that if most people disagree with someone, then they have the right to make that person shut up? I don't know what country you are from, but it certainly isn't the one suggested by your last name.
    You're quite odd aren't you?
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryant.english:
    You're quite odd aren't you?
    I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean.

    Haven't heard any suggestions from you as to how to 'improve' the great People's Republic. Guess things are just dandy aren't they?

  5. #15

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    Freetrader, for a smart and intelligent person which I believe you you seemingly are very challenged to hold contrasting realities in your mind at the same time.

    For me the PRC leadership at the top are the best man for man right now of any government in the world. For me also their means of shutting down dissent are wrong but I understand the basis of their fears. Of their two top priorities social stability and harmony are second only to the economy. If they don't have harmony and stability in the people, the other stuff will fall apart. Their need to solve major economic problems fast is of a scale in population and diversity unseen in modern times.

    Freetrader at times choose to dismiss the messages he doesn't like to hear rather than make suggestions as to what he'd propose the leadership should do. Either it is something old that was 50 years ago and now it is how the question is framed. Amazing USA centric thought.

    I have no time myself to make any good contribution this minute but will think about it for later.

    Last edited by Football16; 10-04-2011 at 11:28 AM.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by virago:
    Actually Bryant has a point. Most Chinese don't care. As long as they are making money they could not care less. It's a selfish society looking out for oneself.

    Anyway they are feed the wrong or no information from the propaganda media so they really can't make a choice to what is right or wrong.
    That is not entirely true. If they are in villages doing badly which many are and which their gov't acknowledges they do care as they want education, health care and money to support their families through work or farming.

    If they are in cities and in business and having to pay off corrupt lower level officials they also care but find it hard to do anything about it.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    That is not entirely true. If they are in villages doing badly which many are and which their gov't acknowledges they do care as they want education, health care and money to support their families through work or farming.

    If they are in cities and in business and having to pay off corrupt lower level officials they also care but find it hard to do anything about it.
    Yes, you are right. This group can't get their voices heard properly, only on a local level and this is generally because of lack of compassion, corruption or an unfit response to requests from farmers. The only way to get their voices heard is mass protests which can turn ugly quickly.

    But with alot of middle class Chinese whom are gaining financial momentum in the China whom can manipulate the system are not so concerned. They are generally the growing force behind the consumer economy.
    Last edited by virago; 10-04-2011 at 12:01 PM.

  8. #18

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    Seems that no one, including the OP, has actually made any suggestions here's 3 to start off with.

    1. Abolishing the ban on political parties. China is large, it's clear that grass roots concerns are ignored and the ability to champion these would be of huge benefit to the people.

    2. Reform of the Hukou system. That so many provinces and cities rely on migrants for their industrial needs yet these people are denied access to medical cover, children's education, etc is crazy. The government knows this has to change particularly when it's own policies favor the creation of super cities.

    3. The increase of the poverty line to a realistic level. Last time I checked the line was set at RMB1,147 per annum. There was talk of slight tuning to this figure in recent months but considering China's current economic status as well as factors such as inflation this also needs a serious overhaul to reflect today's situation.

    That's about it for now, but would be interested to hear others.


  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbdonkey:
    I wonder if china has shut this website down yet in china
    mmmm not yet, I still can access it
    hopefully this wont be blocked here since the political discussion is mostly in English unlike the site review33.com & others

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Freetrader, for a smart and intelligent person which I believe you you seemingly are very challenged to hold contrasting realities in your mind at the same time.

    For me the PRC leadership at the top are the best man for man right now of any government in the world. For me also their means of shutting down dissent are wrong but I understand the basis of their fears. Of their two top priorities social stability and harmony are second only to the economy. If they don't have harmony and stability in the people, the other stuff will fall apart. Their need to solve major economic problems fast is of a scale in population and diversity unseen in modern times.

    Freetrader at times choose to dismiss the messages he doesn't like to hear rather than make suggestions as to what he'd propose the leadership should do. Either it is something old that was 50 years ago and now it is how the question is framed. Amazing USA centric thought.

    I have no time myself to make any good contribution this minute but will think about it for later.
    OK, Football, I appreciate that you and Moving are on the same page and you have both made clear where you stand. You are unapologetic about supporting a dictatorship that locks up (and executes) dissidents because the leadership at the top is the 'best' man for man in the world (how that distinction is arrived at I have no idea, since the 'Great Chinese People' have no say in picking their leaders - presumably Time Magazine decided that). But I grant you and Moving this much - you are unafraid to stand up for the rights of the Chinese Dictatorship. At least your views are clear.

    I suppose your analysis of me is spot on. Yes, it is true, I believe that even Chinese people want and deserve some sort of representative government, that at the very least people should have a right to express their opinion or religion without fear of their lives, and that they should be allowed due process and the rule of law. I don't think someone should be arrested or killed for saying bad things about the US President or the President of the Great PRC (reminds me of an old joke they actually do say in China "we in China have absolutely the same rights that they have in the USA. People in both countries are free to criticise the US government all they want").

    Yes, I believe that a 'truth and reconcilation' process might do China some good. I think it is self-evident nonsense to claim as you do that China, which has survived so far for about 5000 years, would suddenly collapse in chaos if the Chinese communist party allowed an opposition, or even unmolested internet access. Yes, I am afraid I am old fashion and USA-centric. I guess I'm just not as hip to how cool dictators and police states are, like you and Moving, since I would cynically ask you whether you would dare to assert your civil rights in a Western country (or even HK, where you both live) while you would deny them to others who weren't so well-favored in their country of birth.

    I guess I simply don't understand that Chinese love having no civil rights, and love having a dictatorship. They love not being able to speak their mind, and truly believe that "harmony" means doing whatever the guy with the gun says, and that it is just bad manners to disagree with your betters. Yes, I guess all that makes me old fashioned and "USA-centric" because, of course, apparently only the people in the US want these things.

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