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How would you improve China?

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  1. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    Do you seriously doubt that that is true?
    Yes. Absolutely. Met an ex-mainlander on the bus this morning - emigrated to Canada some years ago - I asked her if she wanted to go back (she said she'd given up citizenship to get canadian passport) and she said, yes, absolutely - China is much better now and all her relatives live there.

    You really think almost all Chinese want to leave their country? You're nuts.

  2. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    Yes. Absolutely. Met an ex-mainlander on the bus this morning - emigrated to Canada some years ago - I asked her if she wanted to go back (she said she'd given up citizenship to get canadian passport) and she said, yes, absolutely - China is much better now and all her relatives live there.

    You really think almost all Chinese want to leave their country? You're nuts.
    Moving07, once again you are unable to discern between your tiny little world of expat privilege (which includes your 'Mainlander' friend) and the real world. Yes, many privileged Chinese are returning and staying - since they belong to a class that is doing well by globalization (although plenty of them are still flying to the US to give birth). There is no need to respond to Mat's request for stats (or to HKIT at all) but it is simply a fact that 99% of Chinese would love to have a US green card; if you think that isn't true then you are simply ignorant.

    This particular segue seems to have run its course.

  3. #193

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    [QUOTE=Freetrader;1471153]although plenty of them are still flying to the US to give birth. There is no need to respond to Mat's request for stats (or to HKIT at all) but it is simply a fact that 99% of Chinese would love to have a US green card; if you think that isn't true then you are simply ignorant.

    [QUOTE]

    FT,

    1. plenty of them are coming to HK to give birth (instead of the US..)
    2. request for stats. Sorry FT but as an auditor, you should know better that using statistics is dangerous. It may well be 95% or 80% or 50% for all I know, but if you - with insistence - put 99% as your estimate, I would appreciate this to be backed up by official sources. Else it is a moot point.
    3. does calling ppl ignorant bring anything to the debate, I would think not. lets keep it civilized (although I admit HKIT could phrase his arguments in a less aggressive way)

    Overall I agree that many (how many?) would love to go somewhere else, but I am not convinced they crave, as you imply, for a green card, they just crave for a better and easier life, not a green card.

    Disclamer " I am not, by this post taking any postion as o what should be done to improve China, nor do I support/not support the CCP"

    Football16 likes this.

  4. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by MovingIn07:
    Yes. Absolutely. Met an ex-mainlander on the bus this morning - emigrated to Canada some years ago - I asked her if she wanted to go back (she said she'd given up citizenship to get canadian passport) and she said, yes, absolutely - China is much better now and all her relatives live there.

    You really think almost all Chinese want to leave their country? You're nuts.
    I would think most would, she is living the dream. To have a foreign passport that will bail you out if feces ever hit the fan in China. Canada where you have universal healthcare, and all these other social programs.

    At the same time you can still live in China as long as you want, if you have a return home permit.

    Most people in high positions in the government or making alot of dough in the "grey/black" markets will send their relatives out of the country with alot of that money. That way they always have somewhere to go when things go south (see Taiwan president)

    I will agree 99% of Chinese people would like a foreign passport, but as to how many would leave China for an unknown English speaking country would only be if they thought they had an opportunity for a better life.
    Gatts and Freetrader like this.

  5. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    What I am heartened by is the number of executives from Europe, USA and Australia who I speak to after many years in China or who are there now and how much they like it the mainland. One president going back to HQ wanted his family more time to finish schooling in China. So it is not all doom and gloom as some see it.
    That quote cracked me up. Almost all executives I've met and live in Mainland China, don't like to send their kids to school in China just because of the lack of information available to students. With hugely altered text books on history, only the government line being repeated in classes, and a no room for discussion on topics, who would WANT to have his kids sent there? Sure it would be nice for your kids to be fluent in Chinese, but let's face it they won't get a world class education when only be exposed to a standard school in Mainland China.
    Loz_2 and Freetrader like this.

  6. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatts:
    That quote cracked me up. Almost all executives I've met and live in Mainland China, don't like to send their kids to school in China just because of the lack of information available to students. With hugely altered text books on history, only the government line being repeated in classes, and a no room for discussion on topics, who would WANT to have his kids sent there? Sure it would be nice for your kids to be fluent in Chinese, but let's face it they won't get a world class education when only be exposed to a standard school in Mainland China.
    Your post is hilarious. These are not Chinese so their children go to International schools. If you think text books in places like Canada talk about the real issues of history in Canada and the maltreatment of first nations, the Canadian Japanese internments and property thefts by gov't even today you are dreaming! Teachers might teach this but you wont and don't see this in the books.

    Unlike Freetrader I did not claim that 99% said this. Just some very top execs.

    You think the expats in China go to local schools - lol.

    As far as 99% wanting to go to the USA FT is once again demonstrating his US centric thinking but he is not in the real world on this one either.
    Last edited by Football16; 22-04-2011 at 01:24 AM.

  7. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Unlike Freetrader I did not claim that 99% said this. Just some very top execs.

    You think the expats in China go to local schools - lol.

    As far as 99% wanting to go to the USA FT is once again demonstrating his US centric thinking but he is not in the real world on this one either.
    Well, actually, Gatts was responding to the implication that I also inferred from your post which was that apparently some expats were sending their kids to local schools. My response to that would have been that not many expats send their kids to local PRC schools unless they have no choice, for a host of obvious reasons. Gatts and I had the same impression since if you are only talking about expat schools it doesn't really help your point that things are groovy educationally in the PRC.

    BTW, I am not being "US centric" with my 99% comment. I was simply responding to HKIT's moronic assertion that no Chinese had "defected" to the US recently. My response was to note that i.) it isn't called "defect" anymore, the proper term is "emigrate" and ii.) most Chinese (yes, 99% or so) would love a US green card. I'm not being US-centric there, since I could have written "Australian", "Canadian", "UK" etc., etc. Most people from a poor country would take a green card from a rich Western country. The point is so obvious that it is hilarious that it is being somewhat mindlessly challenged.
    Football16, Gatts and Loz_2 like this.

  8. #198

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    While well-off families would love to send their kids to the States/Canada for an education, that is far from equivalent to them actually wanting to emigrate altogether (but of course they wouldn't mind a Green card, though it is laughable to think that a majority are willing to perform self-mutilation for it). The case may be different for lower class people, but let's face it if you don't have sufficient dough all that's gonna happen is, given that they do make it there, to end up working the same dish-washing job on different continents.

    arshavanpersie likes this.

  9. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    Well, actually, Gatts was responding to the implication that I also inferred from your post which was that apparently some expats were sending their kids to local schools. My response to that would have been that not many expats send their kids to local PRC schools unless they have no choice, for a host of obvious reasons. Gatts and I had the same impression since if you are only talking about expat schools it doesn't really help your point that things are groovy educationally in the PRC.

    BTW, I am not being "US centric" with my 99% comment. I was simply responding to HKIT's moronic assertion that no Chinese had "defected" to the US recently. My response was to note that i.) it isn't called "defect" anymore, the proper term is "emigrate" and ii.) most Chinese (yes, 99% or so) would love a US green card. I'm not being US-centric there, since I could have written "Australian", "Canadian", "UK" etc., etc. Most people from a poor country would take a green card from a rich Western country. The point is so obvious that it is hilarious that it is being somewhat mindlessly challenged.
    If you read that foreign executives put their children in PRC local schools then you know less about China than what is common knowledge. It is commonly known that many Chinese would like their children to go to international schools in the PRC but this is not possible. Not so much difference than western nations like my own until recently denying home schooling to their citizenry for fear they will kids growing up poorly educated and not knowing their own nation's history.

    It is quite well known that the USA is the number one favoured destination for those around the developing world but it is absolutely silly and hillarious to suggest that 99% of the mainland's citizen's would go there if they could. That is simply the most ridiculous rubbish posted here yet you keep on posting this same tired drivel.

    I actually speak and know many PRC families both socially and through mine and my wife's business and have had many conversations as I do with very senior execs who earn far more than your $4 million and who love living and working in China.

    The response across China to the Olympic torch relay debacle alone in China would be proof positive that all Chinese do not find their own country and people as you would suggest they do. The fervour in how fired up and angry the Chinese got about France, etc and how Chinese were disrespected was no doubt not lost on the gov't either as they had to quell the rage and no doubt could see that something in their people that could get unrest going.

    It is interesting that you are here freely supporting Hong Kong which is a vital part of the PRC that you find so distasteful. It is not like anyone is forcing you here or you were born here and have no other choice. To me the best way to show China they are wrong is to abandon them. Oh right, your own nation which is near financial collapse would be even worse off as you use your China made iPhone and PCs to trash all things Chinese.

    While the average Chinese is challenged with corruption in officials at the lower levels and with an economy that cannot yet fulfill the needs of over 1.3 billion people the average person is hardly living in stark fear of their gov't. I suspect you have never been in a war torn dangerous place unless you happened to be in the black ghettos of Detroit, Harlem, Los Angeles and other centers in the USA when the blacks of America had enough of the racism they were getting. You post like China is some dangerous place where people disappear. You Americans know a lot about that like in Guatemala when I was there in 1968 during that civil war. Now that was fearful for even the average person. It is not like that in China.

    Compare one thing. In the USA if you want to tour Capitol Hill or the White House you need to go through your member of Congress or if a foreigner an embassy. In Beijing in the Great Hall of the People they buy a cheap ticket and go through a metal detector and they do it in droves - local China tours and foreigners like me. You can like us even seat in the room where the leadership of the PRC meet. Sadly, you cannot do that in the USA in recent times.

  10. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    most Chinese (yes, 99% or so) would love a US green card..
    just to push you a bit more on that one :-), I am not sure 99% of Chinese ppl know what a green card is....

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