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How would you improve China?

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  1. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Unlike Freetrader I did not claim that 99% said this. Just some very top execs.

    You think the expats in China go to local schools - lol.

    As far as 99% wanting to go to the USA FT is once again demonstrating his US centric thinking but he is not in the real world on this one either.
    Well, actually, Gatts was responding to the implication that I also inferred from your post which was that apparently some expats were sending their kids to local schools. My response to that would have been that not many expats send their kids to local PRC schools unless they have no choice, for a host of obvious reasons. Gatts and I had the same impression since if you are only talking about expat schools it doesn't really help your point that things are groovy educationally in the PRC.

    BTW, I am not being "US centric" with my 99% comment. I was simply responding to HKIT's moronic assertion that no Chinese had "defected" to the US recently. My response was to note that i.) it isn't called "defect" anymore, the proper term is "emigrate" and ii.) most Chinese (yes, 99% or so) would love a US green card. I'm not being US-centric there, since I could have written "Australian", "Canadian", "UK" etc., etc. Most people from a poor country would take a green card from a rich Western country. The point is so obvious that it is hilarious that it is being somewhat mindlessly challenged.
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  2. #192

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    While well-off families would love to send their kids to the States/Canada for an education, that is far from equivalent to them actually wanting to emigrate altogether (but of course they wouldn't mind a Green card, though it is laughable to think that a majority are willing to perform self-mutilation for it). The case may be different for lower class people, but let's face it if you don't have sufficient dough all that's gonna happen is, given that they do make it there, to end up working the same dish-washing job on different continents.

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  3. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    Well, actually, Gatts was responding to the implication that I also inferred from your post which was that apparently some expats were sending their kids to local schools. My response to that would have been that not many expats send their kids to local PRC schools unless they have no choice, for a host of obvious reasons. Gatts and I had the same impression since if you are only talking about expat schools it doesn't really help your point that things are groovy educationally in the PRC.

    BTW, I am not being "US centric" with my 99% comment. I was simply responding to HKIT's moronic assertion that no Chinese had "defected" to the US recently. My response was to note that i.) it isn't called "defect" anymore, the proper term is "emigrate" and ii.) most Chinese (yes, 99% or so) would love a US green card. I'm not being US-centric there, since I could have written "Australian", "Canadian", "UK" etc., etc. Most people from a poor country would take a green card from a rich Western country. The point is so obvious that it is hilarious that it is being somewhat mindlessly challenged.
    If you read that foreign executives put their children in PRC local schools then you know less about China than what is common knowledge. It is commonly known that many Chinese would like their children to go to international schools in the PRC but this is not possible. Not so much difference than western nations like my own until recently denying home schooling to their citizenry for fear they will kids growing up poorly educated and not knowing their own nation's history.

    It is quite well known that the USA is the number one favoured destination for those around the developing world but it is absolutely silly and hillarious to suggest that 99% of the mainland's citizen's would go there if they could. That is simply the most ridiculous rubbish posted here yet you keep on posting this same tired drivel.

    I actually speak and know many PRC families both socially and through mine and my wife's business and have had many conversations as I do with very senior execs who earn far more than your $4 million and who love living and working in China.

    The response across China to the Olympic torch relay debacle alone in China would be proof positive that all Chinese do not find their own country and people as you would suggest they do. The fervour in how fired up and angry the Chinese got about France, etc and how Chinese were disrespected was no doubt not lost on the gov't either as they had to quell the rage and no doubt could see that something in their people that could get unrest going.

    It is interesting that you are here freely supporting Hong Kong which is a vital part of the PRC that you find so distasteful. It is not like anyone is forcing you here or you were born here and have no other choice. To me the best way to show China they are wrong is to abandon them. Oh right, your own nation which is near financial collapse would be even worse off as you use your China made iPhone and PCs to trash all things Chinese.

    While the average Chinese is challenged with corruption in officials at the lower levels and with an economy that cannot yet fulfill the needs of over 1.3 billion people the average person is hardly living in stark fear of their gov't. I suspect you have never been in a war torn dangerous place unless you happened to be in the black ghettos of Detroit, Harlem, Los Angeles and other centers in the USA when the blacks of America had enough of the racism they were getting. You post like China is some dangerous place where people disappear. You Americans know a lot about that like in Guatemala when I was there in 1968 during that civil war. Now that was fearful for even the average person. It is not like that in China.

    Compare one thing. In the USA if you want to tour Capitol Hill or the White House you need to go through your member of Congress or if a foreigner an embassy. In Beijing in the Great Hall of the People they buy a cheap ticket and go through a metal detector and they do it in droves - local China tours and foreigners like me. You can like us even seat in the room where the leadership of the PRC meet. Sadly, you cannot do that in the USA in recent times.

  4. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    most Chinese (yes, 99% or so) would love a US green card..
    just to push you a bit more on that one :-), I am not sure 99% of Chinese ppl know what a green card is....

  5. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    just to push you a bit more on that one :-), I am not sure 99% of Chinese ppl know what a green card is....
    Many Chinese want US universities for their kids over Canadian universities simply due to the perception that being in the larger US market with many global reach corporations that they will then land these better jobs.

    There is no question that if the US welcomed all comers that many Chinese would go there for better education for their children and their ability to pay would give them a great life style. Many now go to Canada and for my wife in high end interior design - these are the ones with many and who want good international, western univ educ for their kids. When the kids realize the economy sucks, they will return home much like many HK families have done who left HK pre-handover in '97. Many including my 4 HK business partner's families and one wife and all her family have all moved back to HK but one who has parents so close to Canadian pension time that they do want to give up CPP at 55 and later at 65 OAP.

  6. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    If you read that foreign executives put their children in PRC local schools then you know less about China than what is common knowledge. It is commonly known that many Chinese would like their children to go to international schools in the PRC but this is not possible.
    So you agree with us that executives would rather put their children in the safe environment of international schools then a local Chinese school with one-sided education? What was your point again?

  7. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    The response across China to the Olympic torch relay debacle alone in China would be proof positive that all Chinese do not find their own country and people as you would suggest they do. The fervour in how fired up and angry the Chinese got about France, etc and how Chinese were disrespected was no doubt not lost on the gov't either as they had to quell the rage and no doubt could see that something in their people that could get unrest going.
    Are your serious? Have you seen the reporting on Chinese CCTV on torch relay protests in France? Hugely blown up and used to incite even more fervent patriotism. Don't forget that the majority if regular Chinese can NOT choose his news source.
    Freetrader and Loz_2 like this.

  8. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatts:
    Are your serious? Have you seen the reporting on Chinese CCTV on torch relay protests in France? Hugely blown up and used to incite even more fervent patriotism. Don't forget that the majority if regular Chinese can NOT choose his news source.
    You gotta get out more. I know Chinese from the Mainland who live in Canada and who find it distasteful that there is corruption for their family businesses in China and who have chosen to stay there for work and they too were like Chinese the world over - totally and completely angered and took this Olympic torch flag issue as an attack on the Chinese people and disrespecting them. They then all on their Facebooks etc put up I love China symbols. The Chinese gov't stepped in to quell this uprising and anger likely because they saw how fired up and angry the public got.

    The Chinese gov't who fear social instability in fact cooled things down as they could see how that anger in future could be used against them when the poor feel things aren't working for them.

    Where you come up with this stuff like the Chinese gov't was behind this is astounding.
    Why they jail dissidents is that they fear unrest.
    Rational, smart Chinese friends of mine who live in Vancouver where the anti-winter Olympics masked thugs there took over the stage could not see any parallel and that all Olympics have detractors and it was not against the Chinese people. In Vancouver's case it was about housing, unemployment and the usual village idiots were behind it. These rational friends were like all Chinese in the PRC - they attacked Chinese people.
    Last edited by Football16; 22-04-2011 at 03:48 PM.

  9. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    You gotta get out more. I know Chinese from the Mainland who live in Canada and who find it distasteful that there is corruption for their family businesses in China and who have chosen to stay there for work and they too were like Chinese the world over - totally and completely angered and took this Olympic torch flag issue as an attack on the Chinese people and disrespecting them. They then all on their Facebooks etc put up I love China symbols. The Chinese gov't stepped in to quell this uprising and anger likely because they saw how fired up and angry the public got.

    The Chinese gov't who fear social instability in fact cooled things down as they could see how that anger in future could be used against them when the poor feel things aren't working for them.

    Where you come up with this stuff like the Chinese gov't was behind this is astounding.
    Why they jail dissidents is that they fear unrest.
    So you just confirmed haven't seen these reports. Among other things these reports basically said they were an attack against the Chinese people while they were clearly not. They used their media cleverly to channel the human rights protest into an "Anti-china" one. So how exactly did they cool the protests down?

    I didn't say the propaganda media was to blame for the whole reaction, but hey you said they "helped in cooling down". Hilarious.
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  10. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    If you read that foreign executives put their children in PRC local schools then you know less about China than what is common knowledge. It is commonly known that many Chinese would like their children to go to international schools in the PRC but this is not possible.

    It is quite well known that the USA is the number one favoured destination for those around the developing world but it is absolutely silly and hillarious to suggest that 99% of the mainland's citizen's would go there if they could. That is simply the most ridiculous rubbish posted here yet you keep on posting this same tired drivel.
    Footy, apparently you didn't read my post which says exactly what you are saying about foreign execs and intl schools. Gatts and I both thought you were saying something different; now I no longer know what you thought your point was supposed to be?

    I think you need to step out of your privileged expat life and consider the point of view of someone who isn't already relatively rich and successful. Most Chinese, poor or rich, would love the chance to emigrate to a Western country or at least obtain residency. There are a lot of obvious reasons for this, including access to education, heath care, social security systems, ability to learn English, etc., etc. Most Chinese kids don't have the opportunity to go to a university - in the West, most kids have the opportunity. I could go on. The fact that a few 'sea turtles' (a great minority, by the way, but no matter) return to China where their Western Education and skills combined with Chinese language and cultural skills are valued is simply a reflection that those who emigrated made the right choice in the first place, for the most part.

    Even Hong Kong, wonderful place that it is, would be a bit of a hell hole, relatively, for the working class folks who basically have to stay here (better to be working class here than on the mainland, I suppose). Having options is never bad.

    But really Football, why do you insist on labeling comments being either 'pro' or 'anti' Chinese? I am certainly pro-American, yet I criticize my country all the time, about a host of things. None of my comments is 'drivel', and I am most certainly pro-Chinese. The inability to look facts squarely in the face is one of the great weaknesses of the Chinese system and for some reason, you insist on repeating it.

    Which brings us to the Olympic torch rely where the whole world saw how the Chinese were manipulated into a frenzy of hatred due some perceived loss of the dictatorship's prestige over an issue that will never affect the mass of Chinese one way or another. There are certainly plenty of 'my country right or wrong' yahoos in any country; however, the world wouldn't have witnessed the orchastrated faux hatred that the CCP created to stifle any views it didn't want to hear.