How would you improve China?

[Freetrader]

We really don't know much about China. We read 1984 without knowing to some extent that we're in it.

Who the hell is "we"? I know plenty about China, and I'll bet you $100 that you are Chinese.

I'm pretty sure the Chinese are aware of the society they live in. I once gave a friend of mine a copy of "1984", expecting her to be impressed by Orwell's insights into the psychology of a totalitiarian dystopia. She actually wasn't very impressed, explaining, "Well, that's exactly the kind of society that I grew up in, so it didn't really have much new to say to me."

That's not to say a lot hasn't changed in the past few years; instead of "Ignorance is Strength" we now have the "Harmonious Society."

[Football16]

It was not lost on me that China got the oil contracts in Iraq while Americans paid for the war and the rehabilitation costs for Iraq. Offshore Libya has massive, not fully tapped and explored oil resources which make any pal of Libya happy to be there. None of the current fighters with Libya are to benefit. Italy will but they are not fighting as their top oil company ENI would be hurt if they did.

So yesterday I googled China and Libya oil and exactly as I suspected, there are news stories of the [

B]Chinese there waiting to buy oil:

Libya rebel oil cargo China-bound: sources
Reuters


By Amena Bakr and Jonathan Saul – Thu Apr 7, 12:30 pm ET[/B]

DUBAI/LONDON (Reuters) – China will buy the first oil cargo from Libyan rebels via trading house Vitol, sources said on Thursday, in a trial deal which is likely to clear the way for Europe to resume badly-needed purchases of Libyan oil.


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What is clear to me is that China has been on a world wide quest for some years now for resources and while there is exploration in China and certainly lots of coal mining there strategy is still to obtain the resources as cheaply as they can from around the world. Cheaply means why waste money fighting silly wars of aggression when you can do it the cheaper way.

Even US citizen T. Boone Pickens makes this very point about the Chinese winning the oil deals in Iraq.

China got Iraq oil. You have to read US media to see how and why:


New York Times reported in Aug. 2008:

" In the first major oil deal Iraq has made with a foreign country since 2003, the Iraqi government and the China National Petroleum Corporation have signed a contract in Beijing that could be worth up to $3 billion, Iraqi officials said Thursday.

Under the new contract, which must still be approved by Iraq's cabinet, the Chinese company will provide technical advisers, oil workers and equipment to help develop the Ah[B]dab oil field [/B....




My point is that China is smart in their approach to obtaining resources and this is helping fuel their massive economic growth so on the economic front and international relations front they are doing very well!

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How to improve China?

1. more of the same economically. Keep going in the same direction.
2. improve domestic consumption
3. improve the plight of rural farmers but balance the needs for food costs
4. improve both health and education

Again these are all the current goals in their 5 year plan.

On the human rights front reduce the jailing of dissidents. As I said before they genuinely fear social instability and they acknowledge internationally that they have large numbers of people who are not doing well and that they fear joblessness with higher pollution standards, etc.

I am reminded what Deng Xiao Ping allegedly said to the Americans when they lectured him on giving more freedom to the people: "how many do you want? 100 million? It is the size and scale of the problems that causes the fear in China.

[jaykay]

Two - 10 thousands of death - small scaled wars.

There was also the Korean War, literally started from Beijing, several attacks on Russia in the 60's, the Vietnam War as well as the launch of 2 of their offspring: The PKI in Indonesia which failed very violently and the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Obviously the Cambodians are thankful for the stability they bought to the country....

[luckycat]

Also, it's funny all these information coming from google. Really, put in the effort and find a book and read it. Stop googling single evidence just to make a point. See trends from a wide resources of information from different perspective.

Ah, the infamous "go get educated and then come back and argue" argument... ;-)

[MovingIn07]

Couldn't agree more. If you look at Russia for example, which had never had a democracy even before the cold war. They did not descend into chaos when the democratic system was introduced in the 90s and haven't faired too badly.

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING. Do you have any idea what a mess Russia is right now?

[MovingIn07]

Seems that no one, including the OP, has actually made any suggestions here's 3 to start off with.

1. Abolishing the ban on political parties. China is large, it's clear that grass roots concerns are ignored and the ability to champion these would be of huge benefit to the people.

2. Reform of the Hukou system. That so many provinces and cities rely on migrants for their industrial needs yet these people are denied access to medical cover, children's education, etc is crazy. The government knows this has to change particularly when it's own policies favor the creation of super cities.

3. The increase of the poverty line to a realistic level. Last time I checked the line was set at RMB1,147 per annum. There was talk of slight tuning to this figure in recent months but considering China's current economic status as well as factors such as inflation this also needs a serious overhaul to reflect today's situation.

That's about it for now, but would be interested to hear others.

Thanks for the contributions. I was hoping we could have a good debate rather than just make assertions and your contributions are very welcome. I agree that these are things that would be good first steps. So let's hear any others. (I suspect there are hundreds of "good first steps" - I limited to 3 because it would be unwieldy otherwise)

[Creative83]

Ah, the infamous "go get educated and then come back and argue" argument... ;-)

I apologize if I sounded that way, because reading it now does make it sound like cheap shot. I just hope instead of arguing, we can get down to an accurate picture of the root issues. I suspect the issue with censorship is not the actual issue, but something grander than it is concealed in this censorship argument. But we keep arguing for/against censorship. If I were to sum it up, that's the main point I want to make. It's a power struggle between the 2 countries.

[Freetrader]

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING. Do you have any idea what a mess Russia is right now?

Russia is a mess but it didn't collapse in a massive, bloody civil war which is what most people, even in the West, predicted would happen at that time. Russia has always been a mess; the transition from state socialism was handled about as well as it could have been, and most of Russia's problems today are the products of either Russia's historical position or 70 years of socialist economic and social dislocation. Credit for this goes to Gorby, Reagan, Yeltsin, and GHW Bush; particularly Bush, who was very careful to avoid any gloating and made sure that the West was supportive in any way possible. The result is that the USSR's 14,000 nuclear warheads were kept fairly under control rather than in the hands of crazy-neo-nationalist warlords like Alexander Lebed. All in all, an outcome better than might have been expected.

[Freetrader]

I apologize if I sounded that way, because reading it now does make it sound like cheap shot. I just hope instead of arguing, we can get down to an accurate picture of the root issues. I suspect the issue with censorship is not the actual issue, but something grander than it is concealed in this censorship argument. But we keep arguing for/against censorship. If I were to sum it up, that's the main point I want to make. It's a power struggle between the 2 countries.

ROTFL!!! Ah, now we see; this whole nonsense is actually being carefully manipulated by the US. Yes, of course, Chinese people would be perfectly happy with their wonderful government if it weren't for that evil US propaganda. Any day now, the news will be released that Ai Weiwei is actually a Western spy.

I don't believe that there is any (legitimate) person on this thread who believes that total sack-of-shit nonsense. Moving07 and Football16 are probably cringing in embarassment now; with allies like you, they hardly need a worthy opponent.

[bryant.english]

You don't read the news reports of mass riots that take place all over inland China, then.

Are these real news reports or fake propaganda like the economic crimes story? I just want to be clear on which are true and which are propaganda or does it depend which side of the debate you're on?